> On 13-Oct-2014, at 8:54 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > >> On 12 Oct 2014, at 18:36, John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> > Consider the following verses of Chapter 75:16-19 Stir not thy tongue >>> > herewith to hasten it. Lo! upon Us (resteth) the putting together >>> > thereof and the reading thereof. And when We read it, follow thou the >>> > reading; Then lo! upon Us (resteth) the explanation thereof. >> >> As long as we're quoting the Quran how about 2:176 >> >> "God has revealed the Book with truth; those that disagree about it are in >> extreme schism” . > > READ: God obeys to truth if God is some maw in reality, God already = Truth). > > Then it just say that liar and wrong people are in trouble. > > > >> >> or 2:190–93 >> >> “Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which >> they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. . . . if they attack you put >> them to the sword". > > Defend yourself against the liars. > > Something like "slay them wherever you find them" is a biit theologically > problematic, and as samiya said, Muhammad wrote this during a war, and can't > concentrate enough on what God told him. he is human, and probably influenced > by temporal problems, I would guess.
Correction: I wrote that these verses were revealed as instructions during war. All verses in the Quran are the exact revealed words without any changes by Mohammed or anyone else. > >> >> or 3:12: >> >> “Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an >> evil resting place!’” . > > > Yes, those who mock truth build their own destructions, like those who lie > about petrol and cannabis. > Unfortuanetly that can take time ... > > > >> >> Or 3:118 >> >> “Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will >> spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their >> hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is the >> hatred which their breasts conceal” . > > Maybe Muhammad get paranoid. Or you can interpret it by "don't try to > convince the studdborn". Here, I would have more time, I would consult many > translations. > > > > >> >> Or 5:57 >> >> “Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels" > > Don't try to make dialog with people coming up with 2+2=5. > > The question is not "is this the most common interpretation of the Quran, it > is "is this the correct interpretation of the Quran". > > That very crucial point was debated by the 8-9-10-11th centuries, among > serious theologians and philosophers, at the time the "real" debate (between > Plato's and Aristotle's conception of reality) was still discussed. > > > >> >> or 5:80–82 >> >> "You will find that the most implacable of men in their enmity to the >> faithful are the Jews and the pagans, and that the nearest in affection to >> them are those who say: ‘We are Christians’” > > Well, not sure Samiya will agree with me, but this type of ad hominem > statement has no place in a sacred text. Well as it is mentioned in the Quran, it must be the general rule of the thumb. Will need to study the historic general trend of individuals and nations towards/against Muslims. > It contradicts also the surat of the poet and the surat of the table. > > I have no problem. I would be Muslim I would explain this by the fact that > Muhammad is a human being, or Löbian entity, which can always get wrong, or > that someone added this, perhaps a Christian. If you were a Muslim you would not doubt the wisdom and knowledge of the author of the Quran. Rather, you would try to understand why is it so. > > For the pagans, I understand, but with comp, paganism and resistance to the > argument-per-authority seems to be encouraged. > > >> >> Or 6:49: >> >> “Those that deny Our revelations shall be punished for their misdeeds” . > > This is either an argument-per-authority, or a trivial statement that > departing from truth leads to catastrophes. We need much more translation to > judge this, especially that in those time, such an assertion apparently > irreligious might only be a poetical assertion on some acceptable axiomatic > of truth. > > > > >> >> or 3:149–51 >> >> "We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. . . . The Fire shall >> be their home” > > > Same for this. If you believe that 5+5= 4, "we" shall put the mess in your > bank account and internet. Quite terrifying the modern analogy :-) Samiya > We need not just many good translations, but a "style" of the period analysis. > > Bruno > > > > > >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
