On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On 14-Oct-2014, at 5:03 am, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> If the Quran has told Muslims to "put terror into the hearts of the >>> unbelievers" and if the Quran really is the word of God then you will be in >>> a constant state of war until the last unbeliever has been converted or >>> murdered. >>> >> >> > Incorrect. God and his angels will put terror in the hearts. >> > > Then God isn't doing a very good job, I guess He needs reinforcements. > Neither God nor His angels puts terror into my heart, but religious > nincompoops with a fetish for dynamite do. > > > Are you at war with Islam? Why should God put terror in your heart? He > knows your innermost thoughts and knows how honestly or otherwise you seek > to understand and make meaning of it all. God knows the set of > circumstances He put you in the world with, including your family and > education and other influences, and He knows and understands what and how > you think and react and why. We do not know whether your heart is one day > meant to acknowledge and appreciate God or not. It's between you and God. > > It is important to also keep in mind that the Messengers were sent to > people who not only did not believe in monotheism, but as a nation these > people were committing many transgressions and sins, and some of the > greatest of Muslims were from people with such backgrounds. > > If I were to cite an example from Prophet Mohammad's time, Omar was an > ardent disbeliever in the message, very angered by the prophetic mission > and was on his way to murder the prophet. Yet, God saw good in him and > guided him to faith. He went on to become the second leader of the Muslims > after the prophet's death. There are many historical records about him, > both pro and anti, depending on who wrote it, you may wish to look them > up. > > > >> > Muslims are not asked to do that. >> > > And yet Muslims are told to: > > “Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an > evil resting place!’” . > > And > > “Believers, do not make friends with any but your own people. They will > spare no pains to corrupt you. They desire nothing but your ruin. Their > hatred is evident from what they utter with their mouths, but greater is > the hatred which their breasts conceal” . > > And > > “Believers, do not seek the friendship of the infidels" > > >> > According to the Quran [...] >> > > Samiya, this is 21st century, other than the fact that you mommy and daddy > told you it was true why would you care what the Quran said? > > > God doesn't force faith on anyone. >> > > But Muslims and Christians do. > > > In fact, on the contrary, those who do not want to believe, God >> withholds guidance from them. > > > What I want to know is why a omnipotent being would consider a belief (or > the desire to have a belief) in something for which there is no evidence a > virtue, in fact the very greatest virtue there is. It's childishly easy to > understand why a bipedal hominid like Jesus or Mohamed or any > mountebank who wished to gain some control over his fellow hominids would > push this idea, but I don't see why a omnipotent being would. > > >> > if you put one toe out of line a loving God with torture you in ways >>> beyond imagining for a infinite number of years. >>> >> >> > Well, if you do not believe in God or after-life, why do you worry >> about it? > > > I worry that God will torment me in the afterlife about as much as I worry > that the big bad wolf will huff and puff and blow my house down, however I > do worry that other people worry about it because nothing in human history > has causes people to do more stupid and destructive things than religion. > > >> I think the God of the Quran is the second most unpleasant character in >>> all of fiction, only the God of the Old Testament is worse. >>> >> >> > I think Allah ( The Deity) is the most loving and compassionate. >> > > Well you'd better think that God is most loving and compassionate because > if you don't your religion says that most loving and compassionate being > will torture you in ways too horrible for our present human minds to > contemplate. And a most loving and compassionate God will continue > performing His butchery on you not for a million years, or a billion years > or a trillion years but for a INFINITE* number of years. > > > God sent us in this world and provides sustenance for all of us whether we > remember Him or not. He gives freely to all in countless ways: the oxygen > we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat, the education that feeds > our minds, the knowledge and feelings that nourish our hearts, the natural > beauty that provide for our senses of sight and hearing and so on. God also > provides wealth and comfort in varying degrees. God does not discriminate > on the basis of faith in this world, as here we all have equal opportunity > to believe or reject. And God keeps inviting to forgiveness. However, God > warns of a Day when all mankind has a meeting with God, an appointment that > must be kept, and God warns that after that God will forget those who > forgot God in this world, and so they will suffer in Hell with nothing but > scalding water to drink and food that will not nourish. > The beauty, delights, comforts and nourishment of this world are only a > preview of the appreciation of God for those who appreciate Him in this > world, without being able to directly see Him, but realise, acknowledge and > appreciate God's existence through His signs. > > > > *Scripture does not report if the infinity is denumerable or if the number > of years in hell being tortured by a loving and compassionate God can be > put into a one to one correspondence with the set of Real Numbers. > > > It is of no benefit to Allah to punish anyone > > > And yet according to both Islam and Christianity God uses all of his > infinite power to punish people for the slightest violation of one of His > many monumentally silly rules. When you look at the way God behaves in the > Quran (or the Bible) can you detect any fundamental difference from the way > Satin behaves? The only difference I can see is that God won the war and is > a little more powerful, so the only reason to join God's team rather than > that of His competition is that God is a bigger school yard bully than > Satin. > > > the doors for repentance are open till a person is about to die. It's >> only when the veil is lifted and a person sees the angel of death that the >> chance to repent and believe is over. > > > So if a man was a good person for 80 years but in the last 3 seconds of > his life during his death agony in a concentration camp he screamed "damn > God" he goes to hell. But if Hitler said "there is no God but Allah and > Mohamed was his prophet" one second before he put a pistol in his mouth and > pulled the trigger then Hitler goes to Heaven. > > > God knows what's in our hearts and minds, and is not deceived by our > appearances and our lies. He grants faith only to the willing heart. We > have no way of knowing whose faith is accepted or otherwise, hence cannot > comment on it. I just pray that we die as Muslims, well pleased with God > and God well pleased with us. Amen > >From my experience with a channel of a recently died person, it appears that all such persons have the ability to read our minds. I of course have no proof that such is true, but it does seem consistent with a mind/body reality. But the point is that if such is true then knowing "what's in our hearts and minds" is not limited to god. If so we on earth must be great entertainment for the dead. Richard > > Samiya > > > Well.. I guess it's no dumber than lots of other religious ideas. > > John K Clark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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