On Saturday, November 29, 2014 5:57:38 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 6:01 PM, <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > > I was talking about your root idea that Evolution cannot detect >> consciousness >> > > It can't and neither can we. > > > (because we can't, I think you said) >> > > The reason isn't because of us, it's just that neither we nor Evolution > nor anything else can detect consciousness other than our own, we can only > detect actions. If Evolution can detect it then so can we and so can the > Turing Test, and if Evolution can't then none of them can. > > > What I showed in was that natural selection will detect any kind of >> difference between the same traits in two individuals, >> > > Only if those different traits produce different actions. If a intelligent > but non-conscious animal behaves differently than a intelligent and > conscious animal then Evolution can detect that and so the Turing Test. > And Evolution will favor whichever behavior is smarter, and if I'm correct > and you can't have intelligence without consciousness then that would make > Evolution's choice easy. > > > Natural Selection will just favour the more overall efficient traits for >> that purpose. The same goes for consciousness . >> > > Exactly, otherwise you and I would not be conscious. > > > This is you key big idea John. Your idea that evolution cannot detect >> consciousness. >> > > It can't. > > > you seem to be saying you don't know what my post is disproving >> > > That is exactly correct, I don't know what your post is disproving, > certainly not that Evolution can not see consciousness. > > > Go to the post and give your counter argument if you have one. >> > > Give me a argument that Evolution can see consciousness and I'll either > give you a counterargument or concede and thank you for correcting my > error, but so far all I've heard is that consciousness makes a animal > behave differently, something I already knew MUST be true or Evolution > would have never produced it. And if it effects behavior then the Turing > Test must work for consciousness too because lack of consciousness implies > lack of intelligence and that implies lack of intelligent actions. >
OK thanks for the above points, particularly that you steered clear of stock phrases. That's appreciated simply because although some of those phrases are superior in their succinctness....re-use within an actual challenge can give the impression of not being authentically open to the challenge. Doesn't have to be true in fact to be a legitimate impression. I can see that although I said it didn't matter what your basis actually was, in fact I was wrong in the important sense of, it mattered if I was effectively working on an assumption that considerably devalued the thinking you had done. Which believing you had said evolution couldn't see consciousness BECAUSE humans cannot, actually does amount to. Not knowingly on my side, but all the same. I'll get back to you, dude. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
