On 09 Jan 2015, at 05:48, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 08-Jan-2015, at 10:46 pm, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ultimate reality? What would make one reality more real than
another?
> Ultimate, primary, fundamental means that it is assumed in the
axioms, and not derivable from logically simpler axioms.
If you had said "fundamental reality" I would not have objected,
but the foundations of a skyscraper are not more real than the
upper stories.
>> The open question is rather mundane, it is what the English 3
letter word "G-O-D" means.
> But it is a simple and mudane facts that it means quite different
things according to time, place, culture
So is there any time place or culture where you would be willing to
say in a loud clear unequivocal voice "I do not believe in God"?
Could you ever say those words with no ifs, ands, or buts, or would
the words always stick in your throat?
> Only Fundamentalist christians, fundamentalist muslims and bigot
atheists [...]
You've called me a "bigot atheist" before so I asked myself if it
was true. Well, a bigot is a person who is intolerant toward those
holding different opinions than ones own, so am I intolerant of
religious people in general? No, I may have contempt for those
particular ideas but don't want people who hold them killed or
imprisoned or punished in any way, except perhaps by being given a
tongue lashing by me on the Everything List.
I am however intolerant of certain religious forces of cruelty
imbecility and ignorance as exemplified by the recent murders of 12
people in Paris because Muslim dimwits didn't like the cartoons
they drew. I am also intolerant of those who murdered 132 children
and 16 of their teachers in a school in
Pakistan a few weeks ago because they didn't like the religious
views of their parents; the radio conversation between the Muslim
child murderers and their bosses were overheard, "We have killed
all the children in the auditorium. What do we do now?", the answer
was "Waite for the army to arrive, kill them, and then blow
yourself up", and that is exactly what they did. I am intolerant of
that sort of behavior even if it was caused by religious belief,
and if that makes be a bigot then so be it.
Most Muslims are also horrified by the cruelty, imbecility and
ignorance of the people who are orchestrating and doing / getting
done these and other terrible acts in the name of Islam. It's wrong,
it's horrible and it's not Islamic!
Obviously.
The chart of the Hamas looks more like a summary of "Mein
Kampf" (disguised in muslim terms) than a summary of the Quran.
Note that some unfortunate verse in the Quran might help them (like
the Gospels can too, or even the Bible) when interpreted literally,
and here, I think that literalism does not help.
I think also literalism is close to the blasphem (of type []<>t).
And if you've noticed, the victims of these horrible acts across the
world are largely Muslims. It makes us wonder who is behind these
atrocities?
Good question.
And why do we (occident) continue to support the Hamas, and the Qatar
and Saudi people who finance the armed groups? The origin of Isil is
also a bit mysterious, then many questions remains unanswered about
9/11, and ... we continue the prohibition of medication, despite we
know today that it corrupts all layers of the democracies, and it
benefits only, and a lot, to the criminals and the terrorists. It
looks like there is a form of international banditism at play.
Note that prohibition of medication has also been made possible by the
fake morality enforced by the institutionalized religions. We have
done the same error with health than with religion, somehow.
We don't learn, but we will, I guess, (there is not much choice in the
long run or it will be the spiders who will get closer to God's will
and contemplate the transcendental realities from Earth).
Bruno
Samiya
> In my personal opinion if you mean something that is not
omniscient not omnipotent not omnipresent not conscious is as dumb
as a stump and is not even a being it would only be good manners to
use a word other than God as that word is already taken for
something else
> Sorry, but here even the wiki agrees with me, like all book on
comparative theology. the word God was used by the pre-christians
platonist, also, to which I clearly refer.
And those pre-Christians performed sacrifices, human and otherwise,
to gain the favor of their "God", and they built temples to their
"God", and they built statues of their "God" that was supposed to
show what "God" looked like. In some cases the statues seems to
have actually become their "God". But how do you build a statue of
the inflation field? Does the inflation field have a beard?
Where are all these God believers who built no temples, made no
statues, performed no sacrifices and said no prayers that you keep
talking about? Where are all the leaders who say they did NOT hear
God's voice telling them what to do? Where are all the nations or
city-states or tribes who say God is NOT on our side in this war?
John K Clark
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