On 19 Jan 2015, at 16:37, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
2015-01-19 16:06 GMT+01:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>:
On 19 Jan 2015, at 01:11, meekerdb wrote:
On 1/18/2015 10:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 16 Jan 2015, at 10:32, LizR wrote:
Clearly one cannot disbelieve in God without knowing, or at least
having an idea of, what God is. Personally I don't disbelieve in
God, I merely find the idea highly unlikely and don't find that
it contributes anything to discussions such as "why is there
something rather than nothing?" So I am agnostic, as I am about
all the other gods, not to mention Santa, who I recently saw on
"Doctor Who".
(Of course I do believe in Daleks...)
If you believe in Daleks, you believe enough to believe in the God
of the machine. We need it, to use the theory of machine's dream
as an explanation why we see physical universes and sometimes pink
elephants, despite nothing like that really exists.
I give the math to see if we get right the number of pink
elephants in the many-dreams (by number) interpretation of
elementary arithmetic (0 I guess, and hope).
Keep in mind that God is defined by being the object of the theory
of everything, or, by definition, the answer we look for with the
question "why is there something instead of nothing?".
The question is not if God exists or not. But if
But that's silly. You presume God exists, but with no description,
so the only task is to find a description to go with the word
"God". If you're going to ask whether something exists that cannot
be defined ostensively, then you need to define it by description.
Otherwise it's just wordplay. Compare:
The question isn't whether Paul Bunyan exists or not. But if
Paul Bunyan = the physical universe?
Paul Bunyan = a mathematical structure? Which one?
Paul Bunyan = a dream by a universal machine?
Paul Bunyan = a sum on all dreams by all universal machines?
Paul Bunyan = the one who lost itself in a labyrinth of dreams?
Paul Bunyan = the one who plays hide and seek with Itself?
Paul Bunyan = the universal person?
Paul Bunyan = the universal person completions? (if that exists)
Paul Bunyan = Allah?
Paul Bunyan = Jesus?
Paul Bunyan = Krishna?
Paul Bunyan = my tax collector?
Paul Bunyan = the one who made the cat in its own image, and then
made the humans to gives the vat the modern comfort, with TV nad
bag of catnip?
etc.
Brent
God = the physical universe?
God = a mathematical structure? Which one?
God = a dream by a universal machine?
God = a sum on all dreams by all universal machines?
God = the one who lost itself in a labyrinth of dreams?
God = the one who plays hide and seek with Itself?
God = the universal person?
God = the universal person completions? (if that exists)
God = Allah?
God = Jesus?
God = Krishna?
God = my tax collector?
God = the one who made the cat in its own image, and then made the
humans to gives the vat the modern comfort, with TV nad bag of
catnip?
etc.
"Theo" in greek run around the idea of contemplation, examination
and speculation. A religion is only an as large as possible
conception of reality, and God is a nickname for what is real,
That's disingenuous. "Reality" is a common word, so we don't need
a nickname. You seem to be just making up excuses to use "God".
I missed that paragraph.
The problem is that "reality" is easily confused with "physical
reality", because we are (still) in the aristotelian era. The best
general term for reality (or source of reality) is
.... snip ...
The best general term for reality (or source of reality) is reality
(or source of reality).
Only for people mature enough to doubt reality, like Descartes, and
understand that they need some faith, like any machine wanting to
believe in a bigger machine. Then the roots of reality, when that
transcendental aspect is noticed, is usually called God, or "Good
Lord" or any nickname for what we hope and trust and can have some
intuition yet non describable, etc.
But you can call it Tao. Or the One. The non-multi one!.
Most people call it "god" in the comparative theologies.
Using "god" makes the relation between machine's theology, and
neoplatonist theology much more readable, and it helps to intuit what
is correct (with respect to machine's theory) in the abramanic
religions too.
Computationalism is super-atheistic, when seen in the Aristotelian
frame, as there is no creation, and no creator, just a swarm of numbers.
But computationalism, from the inside view, when seen in the
Platonician conception of reality, is a theology in the original sense
of the word: that is a theory which unifies all theories in some way.
Physics does unify chemistry and biology, but it fails on
consciousness, where computer science provides a better base. Still
very different notions of God, discussed by students of Plotinus, can
be provided, and lead to open problems.
Bruno
Quentin
Bruno
Brent
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