On 25 Feb 2015, at 05:03, John Clark wrote:
On Sun, Feb 22, 2015 , LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
>What would be a suitable underlying means by which the universe
might operate, that it makes things happen at random?
Huh?? You've got to think what "random" means, nothing made "it"
happen, "it" is a brute fact..
How can you know that. This is equivalent with saying "we will not try
to understand".
I don't find it astounding that some things have no cause,
That is irrationalism. We could as well stop searching.
I find it astounding that some things do.
> an imagine things that might appear random to us, but are actually
the result of deterministic forces operating on scales we can't
probe - e.g. string vibrations. But genuinely random - that seems to
me to require extraordinary evidence.
And we do have extraordinary evidence, Bell's inequality is violated.
Bell's violation just prove that if we abstract from the other
branches things seem indeterministic and non local, but the FPI shows
that if we take all relative branches into account, that was a
delusion. The same appears in the context of machine duplication.
> Some backup for the above two extraordinary claims would be welcome.
(1) that brains aren't Turing emulable at any level
If some new fundamental laws of physics were found to be operating
in human brains that could be evidence that it's not Turing
emulable, but nobody has found even a hint of that.
Accepting QM without collapse. OK. especially that there are no
evidence, nor even definition, for the collapse.
(2) that there is a mechanism by which the universe might generate
truly, rather than apparently random events.
Mechanism?? If a mechanism produces it then it's not random.
Randomness is a event without a cause, and I don't see anything more
illogical about that then a event with a cause.
Magic is not illogical, like the use of the god-of-the-gap is not
illogical. But it is not rational to invoke magic when we have a
simpler explanation, like the one provided by computationalism.
Bruno
John K Clark
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