On 02 Mar 2015, at 00:08, meekerdb wrote:
On 3/1/2015 2:58 PM, LizR wrote:
On 2 March 2015 at 11:12, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 3/1/2015 1:39 PM, LizR wrote:
If Bruno uses God to mean an origin, perhaps he should call it 0
(zero) or { } - the empty set?
I think he wants to mean the underlying basis of everything, not
just a beginning, but a sustaining basis - and he doesn't believe
in set theory or doesn't believe it is basis enough. As Kronecker
said, "Die ganze Zahl schuf der liebe Gott, alles Übrige ist
Menschenwerk." At a gut level I think he wants to poke the eye of
some atheists who rejected his thesis. Otherwise he could easily
use "The One" or aperion or quintessence other theologically
neutral terms.
Yes. His idea is timeless anyway, so it couldn't really be a
temporal beginning. Maybe it should be "Logic" (and he could throw
in a homage to Leonard Nimoy)
I am not sure what evidence there is for a creator, but even if
there is such evidence that doesn't answer the question at the top
of the thread - "Why is there something rather than nothing?" It
just changes it to "Why is there a creator?"
He thinks arithmetic is logically necessary and therefore whatever
satisfies its existence predicate is what exists.
Yes. I have to admit I like this idea because it's the only thing
I've ever come across that actually works on this basis (being
logically necessary). Otherwise the universe is just a brute fact -
which of course it may be.
Until you reflect that logic is just about relations between
concepts we made up - so maybe "logically necessary" isn't so
necessary after all. I find it interesting that a lot of "logically
necessary" truths were contradicted by quantum mechanics: Nothing
can be in two places at the same time. Two things can't be in the
same place at the same time. The truths of arithmetic seem to me to
be the same way. The number of letter in "this" word plus the
number of letters in "that" word is 10 because each has 5 letters.
Or is it only 5: t h i s a ? It depends on how you conceptualize
"letters"; are they marks on the paper or are those marks on tokens
of the Platonic letters?
You are free to develop a quantum theory of numbers.
But to convince us that it is a theory, you need to rely on the usual
arithmetic taught in high school, or anything Turing equivalent.
Numbers themselves are not logical necessities. But if you have enough
axiom to represent the computable functions in your theory, you are
under the incompleteness fate. If your initial beliefs is classical
(contains the classical tautologies), then G and G* will apply to you,
as far as you reason correctly about yourself at a correct
substitution level.
As the goal consists in deriving the "correct physics", I limit my
interview to (simple) correct machine, where correctness refer to the
usual interpretation of the natural numbers.
That is used in virtually all books making the math used by virtually
of physicists.
And there is no need to make any metaphysical assumption about the
existence of the numbers. The point is that there is no need, and no
possible use, of a metaphysical assumption of primary matter, once we
bet that we are Turing emulable.
I don't propose anything new, I show that an assumption (the primary
universe) might not be compatible with the idea that our (generalized)
brain is Turing-emulable.
Note that Turing emulable is an arithmetical concept: you can *define*
it using only the symbol s, 0, +, x and predicate calculus.
Bruno
Brent
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