On 25 Feb 2015, at 23:55, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/25/2015 1:08 PM, LizR wrote:
On 25 February 2015 at 15:00, John Clark <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Tue, Feb 24, 2015 , LizR <[email protected]> wrote:
> skeptical atheism appears to be based on faith.
I see, so belief in God is based on faith and so is doubts about
the existence of God, but for a word to be meaningful there must be
contrast, so your need to point out something, anything, that is
NOT based on faith. And if you can't do that then "faith" is
nothing but a noise made by the mouth.
You might have done me the courtesy of giving the entire quote, so
the context was clear. But I suppose you couldn't do that because
it would have meant the point you're trying to make would have been
revealed as a straw man.
Here is that troublesome quote in full.
Or, to put it more epistemically, skeptical atheism appears to be
based on faith. It is based on the faith that our present
ideologies will be preserved by final science. Current physicalism
may turn out to be as delusory as Abrahamic theology.
-- Eric Steinhart, "Skeptical and Spiritual Atheisms"
A genuine sceptic (and a genuine scientist) is agnostic about what
the final science may turn out to be, if we ever get there. (Brent
tries to be, for example, as do I). What Mr Steinhart is saying is
that "skeptical atheists" as he calls them are making a
metaphysical assumption about the nature of reality - which is,
precisely, an act of faith.
Is it an assumption that the god of theism doesn't exist? Seems to
me the preponderance of the evidence is on that side. I see beliefs
having degrees; which, as Hume said, should be in proportion to the
evidence.
OK. I agree.
Faith means a belief held independent of evidence, e.g. with no
evidence or even in the presence of a preponderance of contrary
evidence.
I disagree. That is blind faith. That exists only because of bandits,
manipulators, people wanting control you. It has nothing to do with
religion or science.
Brent
"I stop believing in Santa Klaus and Jesus the same day in my early
childhood. I was astonished that my cousins stop to believe in
Santa Klaus but kept their belief in Jesus."
--- Bruno Marchal
"Atheist n. A person to be pitied in that he is unable to
believe things for which there is no evidence, and who has thus
deprived himself of a convenient means of feeling superior to others."
--- Chaz Bufe
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
--- Benjamin Franklin (Poor Richard's Almanac, 1758)
Theology, the science, is born with the greek, and was not opposed to
reason. To shut the eye of reason is useful to sell you expensive
inefficatious medication.
Blind faith exists only because we have separated theology from
reason, and the reason of this, is manipulation of humans by private
egocentric interest of some minority.
Faith is more the belief without proof. We need it for the axioms and
theories. It is not the belief without evidence.
Bruno
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