On 01 Mar 2015, at 13:01, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:21 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 28 Feb 2015, at 19:33, Samiya Illias wrote:
On 28-Feb-2015, at 11:00 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
On 27 Feb 2015, at 12:56, Samiya Illias wrote:
Why don't you just call it One with a capital O
Because I use "One" for Plotinus first Hypostase. I use God, for
the general notion, used by most philosophers and comparative
theologians.
God / Allah (The Deity) are terms used for a being worthy of
worship (loving obedience).
That might be true for those who meet God, and strictly speaking it
go without saying. But it might lead to catastrophes when said by
anyone, because you can't really name God so as to be clear about
what to obey to. Cerfeul, as the trick is ,for some tyrant, to make
believe he is the intermediate. That happens very often.
Does the One/God of Comp mean as such?
I suspect so, but with that important proviso, above.
From what I've gathered from your explanations, it simply points to
an origin, not the Creator of the origin(s). Is that correct?
I would say that it points on the permanent immutable perfection,
say, at the origin and end of all origins and ends. It is out of
time and space, and explains the reason of the perception of origin,
time, space, etc
I think "God" is more a semantic reason than an "origin". It is not
omnipotent. Its perfection makes it unable to cope with many things,
including matter. There is a trade-of between knowledge and ability
to change/move. God can oscillate between knowing all things, but
then unable to change anything, or forgetting and then being able to
change and move.
Well, though you can refer to it with whatever word seems
appropriate to you, however I would suggest that you do not use of
the term Allah, as the concept of the term is a perfect, perfectly-
able, perfectly and constantly all-aware, all-seeing, all-hearing,
perfectly-commanding and perfectly-governing being, in control of
everything
So why worry?
If I decide to call it Allah, why would you doubt that this is Allah
will?
and not sharing its sovereignty or command with anyone.
I agree 100%. That's the way of the Gods, and the God, or Goddess.
But that is exactly what many humans do not seem to grasp, when they
believe in prophets and fairy tales. They invent, I'm afraid,
intermediate between God and humans, for political purpose. I am not
sure at all, but it does look like blasphemy.
Allah alone is worthy of worship,
Well, if by Allah you mean God, I certainly agree, but I don't think
any human has a monopoly of a name, as "The God" (which I think is
Allah in arab) has no name.
Suggesting me not to use Allah seems a little weird, then.
and all else is creation,
Or emanation. OK. We can look at the detail later, as you know I think
the neoplatonist muslims, jews and christians are less wrong than the
Aristotelians. They are less numerous too.
and even the mightiest / loftiest of creation submits humbly to
Allah. Use of the word Allah for a concept less-powerful may not be
a good idea.
Are you saying that God is less-powerful than Allah?
Then, given what I mean by "God", you should encourage me to use
Allah. Logically.
And then, IF I use Allah, what makes you think it could be possible
that it is not Allah's wish, given that Allah controls everything?
I am not so sure I understand you fully, Samiya. I certainly
understand that you might not appreciate the doubt about taking
literally the talk of the prophets (despite we both agree they are
human).
I understand also the hardness to accept that in theology we might
have chosen the wrong path, since the sixth century in Occident and
the eleventh century in the Middle-East.
I thought you might be pleased with such terming, but I can also
understand the worry. No problem, I will use, according to the context
the more neutral "One", or "The Truth", or "The ultimate reality", or
simply "God" (the common term used in comparative theology) and not
call It/He/She Allah, nor Brahma, nor Tao, nor ....
You are right that we cannot comprehend it, but sometimes you do
behave like you do comprehend it, somehow, it seems to me.
All Names miss the One.
I think. Currently.
Bruno
Samiya
But it is a very complex subject, and I am extrapolating probably
too much. You might read the book by Brian Hines "Return to the
One" (subtitled "Plotinus' guide To God-Realization"). It is not a
scholar, but it fits rather well with the machine's talk, but to
verify this we need to climb that Mountain, and if I remember well
we are still learning lacing the shoes ....
About this, can you tell me if you have a idea of what a set is? And
what a subset is? How many subsets has the set {0, 1}?
I hope you indulge my math teaching vocation ... For the greeks,
mathematics is the preliminary study of theology.
Bruno
Samiya
Bruno
Samiya
On 27-Feb-2015, at 4:23 pm, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>
wrote:
On 26 Feb 2015, at 21:52, meekerdb wrote:
On 2/26/2015 3:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Fro the greek, the existence of God is a quasi-triviality,
because God, by definition, is the reality that we search.
Then the real question is what is the nature of God? A person?
A physical thing? A mathematical thing? A first principle, etc.
The Greeks had many concepts of the basis of reality which were
not assumed to be gods, i.e. persons. Anaximander called it
"aperion". From Wikipedia:
"Greek philosophy entered a high level of abstraction, adopting
apeiron as the origin of all things, because it is completely
indefinite. This is a further transition from the previous
existing mythical way of thought to the new rational way of
thought which is the main characteristic of the archaic period
(8th-6th century BC)."
So I reiterate my objection that using "God" is not only
obfuscating your avowed meaning it is also wrong to say it's
what the Greeks meant by the basis of reality.
Yes, it is a key moment in the greek theology, where at the
beginning, God was considered as finite, and the infinite was
confused with the indefinite, and almost an insult. Later they
make the infinite (apeiron) into a possible attribute of the
ONE, and reserve the indefinite ofr the notion of bad, or matter.
If you don't like the term "God" I will use "Allah". The main
point about God is that it has no name, so *any* name is wrong.
I did not use God, except in a reply which has lead us to that
infinite useless vocabulary discussion. God is just the most
common quasi-name (pointer).
I made clear what I meant, and the important point is the coming
back to the scientific attitude in theology, which is typically
concerned with soul, afterlife, (re)incarnation, origin of
universe, transcendence, truth, non-nameable, etc. It is the ONE
of Parmenides and Plotinus, and it is not distinguishable from
arithmetical truth, in case we are machine.
BTW, sometimes ago, you suggested here to promote my work to
Templeton. How is that going?
Bruno
Brent
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it, send an email to everything-list
+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-
list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the
Google Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-
l...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
