On 13 Mar 2015, at 17:57, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 13 Mar 2015, at 08:19, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:25 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 3/12/2015 1:21 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
Not me. I'm the opposite, I was always confused by the idea that
rocks are not conscious.
If you ever have an operation, I suggest you check to see that your
anesthesiologist is not confused.
There's maybe a difference between being a conscious entity and
being conscious of something.
Does not consciousness entails the consciousness of at least one
thing?
Even before speculating about an entity (the future "little ego")
consciousness seems reflexive to me, before verbalizing.
It is the fixed point of the doubt. If we try to doubt everything,
we find the indubitable but non justifiable knowledge of one thing.
My intuitive impression (from some attempts at meditating, for
example) is that consciousness can exist in a completely self-
referential state. But I am not certain of this at all. I think this
is inline with what you say above, and with "cogito ergo sum".
That might be. Thomas Slezak, and myself, like to interpret Descartes
in arithmetic, so that a doubt of p, is defined by <>~p, and thus
~[]p, and the fixed point is the famous Gödel sentence g, which is
such that PA proves (rationally believes) g <> ~[]g, which should be
then, as far as PA trust herself and her correctness, true and non
believable/justifiable.
But to get the knowledge itself, which results from that, you need the
knower variant= [1]p = []p & p. That one has [1]p -> p, and just can't
doubt everything: he is the one living the fixed point of the doubt.
I think that meditation tries to diminish the dominance of the []p,
and meditation favor the "p", in the []p & p part of the knower.
It leads to the problem that consciousness becomes a feature of the
arithmetical truth, only restricted by the little ego, owner of the
body and representations. We might need that God (Truth) is a knower
itself, and thus a sort of person, because only God would be conscious.
I think.
You might say it is not a consciousness *of* something. I might have
missed a nuance.
I will clarify what I meant in a reply to Brent, to keep the
discussion linear.
Oops, sorry for bringing some non linearity, but that's because the
black hole in my basement is active again ...
The nice thing is that I just need to read your post to Brent to get
the clarification, and see if it matches the universal machine's
explanation.
Bruno
Bruno
Telmo.
Bruno
Telmo.
Brent
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