On 24 Jun 2015, at 18:25, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 Terren Suydam <[email protected]> wrote:
> There are a lot of skeptical people on this list. Yet as far
as I can tell not one person has been swayed by your step 3
criticisms.
Tough, being outnumbered a hundred to one in a debate is nothing
new to me, and a hundred people may be chanting the same gibberish
but that doesn't make it any less idiotic. If nobody else knows what
I'm talking about then I must be smarter than everyone else on
this list. Yes that sounds very egotistical but too bad, I'm right
and their ideas are so bad they're not even wrong.
It would be better you ask yourself why you can't explain the point to
anyone.
Step 3 is still a nursery step, compared to step 7 and 8.
yet, you are not the first to have problem with it, but usually, when
people grasp the defifinition of 1p and 3p given, they get the point
that was is said follows from the definition is an immediate 3p way.
There is no philosophical controversy, nor scientific debate on this
(the worst are boring vocabulary issues, which have no consequences on
the way to test comp).
And yes it would be foolish to say something like that if I were
interested in public relations but I'm not, and that's why I'd never
make it in politics.
>> But what does "The Helsinki Man" mean? It can't mean the
guy currently experiencing Helsinki because after the duplication
nobody is in Helsinki anymore, so it must mean the guy who remembers
being the Helsinki Man; but there are 2 people who meet that
criteria. Therefor to determine the fate of the Helsinki Man two and
not just one individual must be interviewed, and from that the only
logical conclusion is that the Helsinki Man saw Moscow AND Washington.
> But you contradict yourself because as you say, once they
diverge, they are no longer the same people.
That is no contradiction! They are both different people
because they have had different experiences AFTER the duplication,
but they both have equally vivid memories of being The Helsinki Man
and that is what I mean by "The Helsinki Man". If you mean something
different by "The Helsinki Man" I'd love to hear what it is.
On the contrary, we do use that same definition, on which we agree
since years. Indeed, it is because the Helsinki man is in both W and M
after the duplication, that the Helsinki man, when still in Helsinki,
cannot predict which city he will feel to be in the particular event
of pushing the button. Precisely he knows that his 3-he will be in
both city, but that his 1-he will see only one city (with probability
one), and indeed both the W and M man confirms: we see only one city,
and could not predict which one in advance.
The only way to verify the 1p indeterminacy is in interviewing *all*
reconstitutions (or a good sample).
Bruno
John K Clark
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