[sorry my hand slipped and an incomplete email got sent] On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 6:05 PM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >>> if somebody is obviously struggling to find lame excuses to defend the >>> indefensible just because it's a minority screaming about a >>> >>> ancient injustice or demanding that free speech be curtailed on college >>> campuses you can be pretty sure he's a liberal. >>> >> >> > >> Well, not in my case. Firstly I abhor what's happening in college >> campuses and I highly value free speech. >> >> Secondly, I do not blindly defend minorities. For example, I am 100% on >> the side of Charlie Hebdo and I think that, if Muslims want to live in our >> society, then they better get used to the idea that we can say whatever we >> want about Muhammad. >> > > Good but be warned, your liberal membership card could be revoked; > Wow, that would ruin my day... Seriously though, I have no sympathy for liberals. I think they are less bat-shit-crazy than the conservatives, but even that seems to be changing with this new wave of Social Justice Warriors. Both of them are perfectly happy to use the power of government to interfere in things that are none of the government's business, so none of them are my friends. Also, both side lie heavily. > if you tried to give a speech on the above on many college campuses self > described liberals would prevent you from doing so. > > >> > >> I am a pacifist and I oppose the initiation of force. I do accept the use >> of force in self-defense. > > > > Then you're not a pacifist, I'm not a pacifist either, and neither are the > heroes of Kung Fu movies even if they do talk about the virtues of pacifism > while they're beating the shit out of people. Martin Luther King > > and Gandhi > were pacifists, we're not. > Alright, I am "against the initiation of the use of force". It doesn't roll off the tongue so well but ok. > > > >> Now, you can argue that the native Hawaiians >> > > Are "native Hawaiians" people who were born in Hawaii or is that > insufficient, do you also have to have the correct bloodline to be allowed > into that exclusive club? > There are cultures that emerge from populations. They might survive even when other cultures become dominant. Or not. These are things for serious social science to determine (it's the job of anthropologists, sociologists and so on). We severely lack the political will to take social science seriously*. This issue becomes more obvious with ISIS, and how obvious it is that our leaders don't even have a reasonable model of the enemy. All they have is comic book plots. There are a number of important insights on what turns a third-generation muslim immigrant into a terrorist, but these insights are ignored in favor of inane rhetoric (both from the right and the left). * And the blame falls partly on less-than-serious social scientists > >> > >> have no legitimate claim over the mountain, >> > > I do say that, and I further argue that even if the court found they have > a legal claim over the mountain (because of who their ancestors were) > they are ignorant barbarians for not letting it be used for something as > glorious as a thirty meter telescope, especially when there are only 2 > other places on the planet where such an instrument could be built. > Ok, but this is not what I am arguing, from the beginning. What I said was simply: "something akin to a prime directive might be a good idea". > > >> > >> I am more than willing to listen to your arguments. But you start by >> assuming that anyone who doesn't agree with you is a moron, and that makes >> discussion harder. >> > > Then I guess the discussion is going to get harder because I am making 2 > assumptions and both seem entirely reasonable to me: > > 1) Anyone who opposes the Thirty Meter Telescope because they believe the > construction noise will disturb the sleep of Mother Earth and Father Sky is > a moron. > > 2) Anyone who feels it is his duty to make lame excuses for people in the > above category is also a moron. > These are not assumptions, these are value judgements. Telmo. > > John K Clark > > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
