On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> You need the information that was in your biological brain to be >> implemented in something physical so that it behaves >> in >> the same way, but it makes no difference if the physics is done in >> biology or electronics or tinker toys. > > > > Or in Robinson Arithmetic, > And because it is nonphysical the Robinson Computer Corporation had zero manufacturing costs it dominated the entire IT industry and Raphael Robinson became the world's first trillionaire in 1960. Oh wait... I can find many examples of a biological brain making a calculation and of a silicon brain making a calculation and even of a tinker toy making a calculation. Show me a example of Robinson Arithmetic calculating *anything* without using matter that obeys the laws of physics and I'll take your ideas seriously. > > > given that it provides a Turing complete environment: > Big deal, so does the Conway's game of LIFE. > > > If something "physical" is at play, it has to be non Turing emulable > > so as to make a difference from its arithmetical implementation > What on earth are you talking about? You can make a Turing machine out of electronics or you can make one out of tinker toys, but you can't make one out of Robinson Arithmetic unless there is a brain made of matter that obeys the laws of physics is thinking about Robinson Arithmetic . > > I keep my philosophy secret. It is none of your business. > That is of course your right but I must say you're not very good at keeping secrets as nearly every one of your posts is full of your philosophical ideas, in fact you talk about little else. As for me I'm not embarrassed by my philosophy so see no reason to keep it secret. > > Not with the computationalist theory of mind. The Carbon and hydrogen are > only used to implement an higher level of computation. > A bstract atoms always exist but the abstraction has no effect on consciousness unless 23 physical Carbon atoms 28 physical Hydrogen atoms and 8 physical Oxygen atoms are arranged in a certain way and put inside a physical brain. And t hat fact makes no sense if physics is not needed for consciousness. >> >> >> If physical implementation is not needed for consciousness then why does >> this simple molecule have such a profound effect on consciousness? > > > > > Perhaps because that molecule imitates the action of some key endogen > molecules, perhaps used in state of intense stress or difficultly. > That possible even probable, the simple physical salvia molecule probably does mascaraed for some other simple physical molecule normally found in the brain, but that doesn't explain why any physical molecule could have such a profound effect on consciousness if something physical is not needed for consciousness. > > Once you are implemented through molecules and chemistry, there is nothing > strange that some molecules produces such effects. > I agree, but the key point is that it needs to be implemented and molecules are physical. >> >> When anesthesia enters your brain >> >> it >> >> stops working and your thoughts stop too until the anesthesia wears off >> and >> your >> brain starts up again; If a bullet enters your brain it will stop >> working too and it is reasonable to hypothesize your thought's >> >> >> >> will >> also >> , but in this case the bullet never wears off and instead your brain rots >> away and never starts up again. If death means having a last thought >> (and I don't know what else it could mean) >> then the bullet has caused your death. > > > > > Only where the bullet has been shoot, but no everywhere else in arithmetic > or in a multiverse. > Arithmetic exists but that will not help me, but the multiverse could. If the multiverse exists then I will not die, the gun will jam or some other astronomically unlikely event will always prevent my oblivion . If the multiverse exists then Cryonics will do no good (or harm), but I am not willing to bet my life that the multiverse exists because there is a lot of stuff about physics that we know nothing about, hell until about 10 years ago we thought 4% of the universe was the entire thing and were completely ignorant about 96% of it. So I'm pretty sure the multiverse exists but if I were a ancient Greek I'd be pretty sure the Earth was surrounded by a crystalline sphere and the stars were dots painted on it. > > > You are again confusing the 1p logic and the 3p logic. > I know but my confusion is understandable because the idea that there is actually a difference between "me" and "him" is so new original and sophisticated. John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
