On 15 Feb 2016, at 21:38, John Mikes wrote:
JKC wrote: "
Giuseppe Peano did not have a brain made of matter that obeyed
the laws of physics?! Was he headless or just brainless?
Perhaps Giuseppe's mother had the Zika virus when she was pregnant.
Physical sciences - so far - never explained the MENTAL activity
assigned to brains (guts?) - the physical measurements simply
ASSUMED some neuronal activity "translated" into mental processes.
In the 'physical] view Peano did have indeed a head and brains and
certain measurements could be assigned to the mental activity
experienced by such.
Try to trace the topical output by the lab-results.
WHERE (if it is a localizable concept) and HOW (if it is subject
to ANY of our physical conundrums) such mentality was performed is
still unknown.
In science we never know, but if we assume mechanism, any first order
Turing complete theory will do, like elementary arithmetic. of course,
number are not localizable entities, but they explain completely why
machine believes to exist in a time-space frame.
Similarly the 'connectivity' between a physically 'headed' and
'brained' person - his ideas and topical conclusions - are beyond
our present physiological - physical data.
Which need to be related with the psychological and others
experiential first person data. yes. That is the mind-body problem,
basically solved when we assume Mechanist, notably by listeing to what
Löbian machine can already justify and guess about themselves.
Bruno
John Mikes
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 1:09 PM, John Clark <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Mon, Feb 15, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> Giuseppe Peano did not have a brain made of matter
that obeyed the laws of physics?! Was he headless or just
brainless? Perhaps Giuseppe's mother had the Zika virus when she was
pregnant.
> I mean that there are zero evidence that his brain is made of
primary matter. Easy: there are no evidence at for primary matter.
Who cares? I maintain that matter is needed to produce both
intelligence and consciousness, it's irrelevant if matter is
primary or not.
> PA proves ~(2+3= 7), without any need of primary matter.
Who has Mr. PA proven that to?
>> if Michelangelo had just displayed a huge block of natural
marble and said David was inside few would say he was a great artist.
>The analogy is misleading. A marble is a not a digital
machine, nor an effective theory, for which the presence theorem-
hood in an arithmetical property.
Michelangelo was able to differentiate between marble
that was David from marble that was not David; and Giuseppe
Peano was able to differentiate between true mathematical
statements and false mathematical statements. And both
Michelangelo and Giuseppe Peano had brains made of matter that
obeyed the laws of physics.
>> A machine made of matter that obeys the laws of physics
can correctly inform John Clark that 2^57,885,161 −
1 is prime,
> I doubt this,
Do you doubt that 2^57,885,161 − 1 is prime or do you doubt that
John Clark was informed that 2^57,885,161 − 1 is prime?
> but even if true, that would only shows that JC needs a
physical implementation to get a physical result,
It shows that a CONSCIOUS being named John Clark who has a brain
made of matter that obeys the laws of physics needs a physical
implementation to be CONSCIOUS of the fact that 2^57,885,161
− 1 is prime.
> A digital machine is not made of anything
If it's not made of matter that obeys the laws of physics then
that digital machine will never change, and that means it will
never do anything.
John K Clark
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