On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:21 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi Samya, > > I already told you that Soufism is, in Islam, and from the theological > point of view, the closer to the machine's theology, which is not > astonishing given that they are closer to Neoplatonism too (and I have > explained that the mathematical theology of the universal machine is close > to Neoplatonism, and also to the Neopythagoreanism of the earlier > centuries). > > I have discovered the Alevi Bektashi sects since, and they confirmed my > feeling, not only with respect to the theological science, but also with > respect to practice and their openness to other religion (which *is* a sign > of genuine faith in the machine's faith). > > Do you know them? > I didn't know about this sect, but just read it up on Wikipedia. There are several sects in Islam, as in all other religions. Though I disagree with their beliefs, I will not comment upon it or criticise it, as I am held back by these verses of the Quran: Indeed, those who divide their religion and become sects, you are not with them in anything. Only their affair (is) with Allah, then He will inform them of what they used to do. http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/159/ And hold firmly to (the) rope (of) Allah all together and (do) not be divided. And remember (the) Favor (of) Allah on you when you were enemies then He made friendship between your hearts then you became by His Favor brothers. And you were on (the) brink (of) pit of the Fire then He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes clear for you His Verses so that you may (be) guided. http://islamawakened.com/quran/3/103/ > > I realise also that Ataturk made a big mistake. Wanting to eliminate the > weight of religion in Turkey, he persecuted them and installed the Sunni > instead, which are rarely open to other religion and can often use the > "argument" of force (as we can see today in some countries, alas). > > > http://www.islamicpluralism.org/2340/the-bektashi-alevi-continuum-from-the-balkans-to > > On the french wikipedia, they assert also that the veil is not obligatory, > I agree that the veil is not obligatory. It is not even ordained to ordinary Muslims in the Quran. The veil or partition was ordained upon the believers as regards to the Prophet's wives in Chapter 33: O you who believe! (Do) not enter (the) houses (of) the Prophet except when permission is given to you for a meal, without awaiting its preparation. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, then disperse and not seeking to remain for a conversation. Indeed, that was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of (dismissing) you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. *And when you ask them (for) anything then ask them from behind a screen. That (is) purer for your hearts and their hearts.* And not is for you that you trouble (the) Messenger (of) Allah and not that you should marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that is near Allah an enormity. http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/53/ Consider the above in the light of these verses which precede verse 53 in the same chapter: The Prophet (is) closer to the believers than their own selves, and his wives (are) their mothers. And possessors (of) relationships, some of them (are) closer to another in (the) Decree (of) Allah than the believers and the emigrants, except that you do to your friends a kindness. That is in the Book written. http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/6/ O wives (of) the Prophet! You are not like anyone among the women. If you fear (Allah), then (do) not be soft in speech, lest should be moved with he who, in his heart (is) a disease, but say a word appropriate. And stay in your houses and (do) not display yourselves (as was the) display (of the times of) ignorance the former. And establish the prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Only Allah wishes to remove from you the impurity, (O) People (of) the House! And to purify you (with thorough) purification. And remember what is recited in your houses of (the) Verses (of) Allah and the wisdom. Indeed, Allah is All-Subtle, All-Aware. Indeed, the Muslim men and the Muslimen, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obedient men and the obedient women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the men who give charity and the women who give charity and the men who fast and the women who fast, and the men who guard their chastity and the women who guard (it), and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a reward great. http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/32/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/33/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/34/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/35/ Relevant to the veil is also the issue of Head Cover. Someone on another list raised a question about head cover a while back. This is how I understand it: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2016/01/head-cover.html > and that the bektashi woman can marry without any problem a man with > another religion. The woman bektashi prays together with the man, which is > nice, but also religiously serious if I can say. Woman are treated like > man. They are egalitarian, and have often fight against the use of > authority in religion and politics. Nor do they pray in the direction of > the Mecca. > Regarding prayer and direction, we can sometimes pray together or segregated at the Grand Mosque at Mecca, as the situation may be. In many other mosques, separate arrangements are made for men and women, while in some local/small mosques, there is only prayer area for men, while women pray at home. Quran, Chapter 2, verses 142 onwards mention the Qibla, and the following verse orders and explains it thus: *And from wherever you start forth [so] turn your face (in the) direction (of) Al-Masjid Al-Haraam. And wherever that you (all) are [so] turn your faces (in) its direction*, *so that not will be for the people against you any argument* except those who wronged among them; so (do) not fear them, but fear Me. And that I complete My favor upon you [and] so that you may (be) guided. As We sent among you a Messenger from you (who) recites to you Our verses and purifies you and teaches you the Book and the wisdom and teaches you what not you were knowing. So remember Me, I will remember you and be grateful to Me and (do) not (be) ungrateful to Me. O you who believe[d]! Seek help through patience and the prayer. Indeed, Allah (is) with the patient ones. http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/150/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/151/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/152/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/153/ The turning towards Qibla in Mecca is simply following the order for unity, and not an act of piety, as clarified by the following verse: It is not [the] righteousness that you turn your faces towards the east and the west, [and] but the righteous[ness] (is he) who believes in Allah and the Day [the] Last, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Prophets, and gives the wealth in spite of his love (for it) (to) the near relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and (of) the wayfarer, and those who ask, and in freeing the necks (slaves) and (who) establish the prayer, and give the zakah, and those who fulfill their covenant when they make it; and those who are in [the] suffering and [the] hardship, and (the) time (of) [the] stress. Those (are) the ones who are true and those, [they] (are) the righteous. http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/177/ > > The Alevi (alone) people have originally claim that their religion is > anterior to Islam, despite close to Shi'ism after the influence of > Muhammad and Ali (Muhammad's nephew and sun in law). There are obvious link > with Zoroastrism (the "mother" of the abrahamic religion). > > I find them very interesting. The main point closer to machine's theology, > is that they have a non literal, mystic interpretation of the Quran, > Suppose (i) someone receives a legal notice, and does not read it literally: would that be an intelligent or sensible thing to do? (ii) someone is entering into a contract with someone, and does not read the agreement literally: will this ignorance of the contract hold as an excuse if things do not go well and they eventually have to go to court? (iii) you write a paper or an email, and the recipients do not read it literally, even though they have a high regard for you and your knowledge, but choose to instead only keep it? suppose you wrote important information and vital instructions in it, not following which would cause the reader terrible loss, then would the recipients not be terribly unjust to themselves by not attempting to study, understand and follow it? What proof is there that the mystic non-literal interpretations are correct, and which one? Why would God send a non-literal text when God created all languages and can clearly express and instruct in any language? I believe that the Quran is a guidance for all believers*, so that they have the opportunity in this life to do good deeds accordingly and prove themselves worthy of God's forgiveness, and thus be purified** and granted inheritance of the Gardens of Eden. As the Quran itself states: *Only you (can) warn (him) who follows the Reminder and fears the Most Gracious in the unseen*. So give him glad tidings of forgiveness and a reward noble. http://islamawakened.com/quran/36/11/ And not We taught him [the] poetry, and not it is befitting for him. *Not it (is) except a Reminder and a Quran clear, To warn (him) who is alive and may be proved true the Word against the disbelievers*. http://islamawakened.com/quran/36/69/ ; http://islamawakened.com/quran/36/70/ Say, "What thing (is) greatest (as) a testimony?" Say, "Allah (is) Witness between me and between you, and has been revealed to me *this [the] Quran that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches*. Do you truly testify that with Allah (there are) gods other?" Say, "I (do) not testify." Say, "Only He (is) One God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate (with Him) http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/19/ The Quran claims repeatedly that it is explained in detail: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/03/explained-in-detail.html *believers: God knows who is a believer in the only true God, and who is a hypocrite, and who is a polytheist, and who is a disbeliever. I think these terminologies used in the Quran are independent of the religious titles we are born with or profess. Thus, the Quran exhorts: And remind, for indeed, the reminder benefits the believers. http://islamawakened.com/quran/51/55/ **purified: I understand the purification to be that our software is restored to its pristine original perfect condition, as I've discussed in my Mission of the Messengers blogposts, about how the Adam's genome got corrupted, and we have inherited it: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/mission-of-messengers-iii.html Samiya > which is directly reflected in their spiritual flexibility and openness to > *apparently different* faith. They understand that sacred texts are > parabola to help the attempt to the personal experience of the divine, > which is very often discouraged if not forbidden once a religion is > institutionalized. > > Best, > > Bruno > > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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