On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote:
> Hi Samiya, > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 5:30 AM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Thank you Telmo for your kind words. Appreciate it! >> >> You ask 'please respect mine' - I do not know what your faith and beliefs >> are, and if I have unknowingly shown any disrespect, I apologise to you for >> it and pray to Allah for forgiveness. >> > > No need for apologies (well I don't know about Allah, but I'm cool). What > I mean is this: we have a mailing list dedicated to theories of everything. > Scripture is essentially a Theory of Everything! > It seems to be polite to discuss topics that can be communicated, that can > have some hope of being meaningful to the audience. > I think I mostly write in response to questions raised. I cite and quote the Quran so that everyone knows the original source and can check for themselves. Suppose I started writing emails every day describing my dreams in > excruciating detail, citing from things that happened in them and how they > affected me. > > >> >> I do not ask anyone to believe the Quran to be among the divinely >> revealed scriptures because of my faith in it. Rather, I attempt to show >> that it is a factually accurate text ( >> http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/ ) and thus must be taken seriously! >> > > You are suffering from an extreme case of confirmation bias. When you > arrive at the conclusion that the Quran is compatible with modern science, > you fail to take into account the probability of your interpretation of > each sentence being the one that the author had in mind. > Of course, I can be wrong, but I also can be right. How would you know if you refuse you verify for yourself? > There are interpretations of the Quran that indicate that the Quran says > that the earth is flat. > Well, the Arabic word used implies spreading out like a carpet, which is indeed closer to how one would define the crust/surface of the Earth. > > The text was written a long time ago, in the context of a long gone > culture and set of circumstances. > The text is still relevant, and warns us of events to come, both in this world and in the Hereafter: For every news (is) a fixed time, and soon you will know. http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/67/ > It's hard to agree on the intention behind many sentences in the US > constitution, let alone this. > > If the Quran told me that the runtime complexity of the quicksort > algorithm is O(n log n), or that the sun is x times further away from the > earth than the moon on average, I would be impressed. But it never says > anything of the sort, does it? It's always up to the reader to squint > really hard to find the "scientific truth", isn't it? > Well, it depends on the knowledge and intelligence of the reader, as well as the willingness of the reader to try to understand and take guidance. For example, it states repeatedly that the water was sent to Earth. Some translators translate the arabic word for water as rain, which naturally changes the meaning. However, latest findings seem to confirm that water was delivered to Earth: http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/10/origins-of-water.html > > Maybe the Quran inspires you personally. I understand that, I have my own > things that inspire me personally. That help me get in touch with > transcendence. Some music, for example, and also some books. I don't wish > to diminish your love of the Quran, but I would like it if you stopped > citing it as evidence for anything whatsoever. It's a personal thing, keep > it to yourself please. By not doing so, you are polluting our environment. > It's not respectful or polite. > That's a strange remark. Citing Plato or Aristotle or Einstein or Alice in Wonderland is okay, but citing the scripture, and specifically the Quran is not? > > >> >> This email list has been pondering, discussing and debating machine >> theology, the mind-body problem, 1P, 3P, and so on. You understand the >> relationship between the software and the hardware. Who then can better >> appreciate the scriptures when they speak of the WORD preceding everything, >> that is, the CODE which generated the entire creation and everyone and >> everything in it?! Who then can better understand that it is the COMMAND >> which effects changes in the PROGRAM, and the COMMAND is generated by the >> PROGRAMMER (God)?! >> > > Either God is itself part of the (infinite) program, in some sense, or you > are invoking dualism. Dualism has its own set of problems and I find it > trivially refutable. > God is not part of creation. God is the Creator. > > >> Who then knows that even what appears RANDOM is generated by CODE?! Who >> then can better relate to the concepts of NAFS (1P) and OBSERVERS & >> WITNESSES (3P)?! Who then can better realise that if a CODE was originally >> conceived and has been WRITTEN, then repeating the CODE to RECREATE it is >> far easier?! >> > > > We talk a lot about computacionalism, and then it makes sense to talk of > programs, but that doesn't giver you carte blanche to run with the analogy > so far without further inspection. > > The name "everything list" comes from a possible answer to where the > program comes from: the possibility that all things exist. Bruno provides a > more rigorous definition (assuming computationalism) of this idea with his > Universal Dovetailer. You can take it or leave it, but you have to concede > that it is possible to conceive of programs without a programmer > (interventionist god) in the sense that you want. > I cannot conceive a program without a programmer. > > >> And, especially, who then can better understand that tampering with the >> PERFECT CODE only corrupts it?! >> > > If the original code is perfect, and this perfect code is running us from > the start, then everything we do is perfect. There is no need to fear > corruption. If you fear corruption, then you don't believe that the > original code is perfect. > The worst thing that can be done to a software is to corrupt it. We humans have been granted knowledge and the responsibility that comes with it. When we try to self-destruct by tampering with our own code, divine intervention comes to prevent it. This is the lesson I've understood so far from the narrations of past civilisations in the Quran who were destroyed. Not only were they punished for their corruption, humanity was saved from extinction through these divine acts. The divine intervention was an act of mercy for the rest of mankind! > > >> >> *Quran 30:30* <http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/30/30/> So direct your >> face toward the religion, inclining to truth. [Adhere to] *the fitrah of >> Allah upon which He has created [all] people*. *No change should there >> be in the creation of Allah* . *That is the correct religion*, but most >> of the people do not know. >> >> And who better to realise that a PROGRAM is WRITTEN and EXECUTED for a >> PURPOSE?! >> >> *Quran 42:51 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/42/51/> *And it was not >> (vouchsafed) to any mortal that Allah should speak to him unless (it be) by >> revelation or from behind a veil, or (that) He sendeth a messenger to >> reveal what He will by His leave. Lo! He is Exalted, Wise. And thus have We >> inspired in thee (Muhammad) a Spirit of Our command. [Q42:52 >> <http://islamawakened.com/quran/42/52/>] Thou knewest not what the >> Scripture was, nor what the Faith. But We have made it a light whereby We >> guide whom We will of Our bondmen. And lo! thou verily dost guide unto a >> right path, [Q42:53 <http://islamawakened.com/quran/42/53/>] The path of >> Allah, unto Whom belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is >> in the earth. Do not all things reach Allah at last? >> [Translator: Pickthall] >> >> *Quran 27:82 <http://quran.com/27/82>* warns us that: ‘And when the word >> is fulfilled concerning them, We shall bring forth a *beast* of the >> earth to speak unto them because mankind had not faith in Our revelations.’ >> >> >> With advances in computing and genetic engineering, we are fast >> approaching the foretold terrible outcome of tampering with creation. >> Please think about it. >> > > If you mean deliberately changing DNA with technology according to our > whims, we've been doing this for centuries (millennia?) to other species > and we already do it to humans in several ways. > And if Allah (were to) punish the people for what they have earned, not He would leave on its back any creature. But He gives them till a term appointed. And when comes their term, then indeed, Allah is of His slaves All-Seer. http://islamawakened.com/quran/35/45/ > Not even mentioning many other forms of "tampering with creation" > including surgery (without one I would be dead at the age of 1 month > because of a birth defect in my stomach valve). > Correction and corruption are two different things - one has to do with end-user interacting with the program, the other tampering with the source code. Samiya > > Cheers > Telmo. > > >> >> >> >> Samiya >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 23, 2016 at 12:13 AM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Samya, >>> >>> I am sorry to tell you but you are infected by a thought virus. I hope >>> you are cured from it eventually. >>> >>> You state that the Quran is the ultimate source of truth. Many people >>> claim, and have claimed, throughout the ages, that X is the ultimate source >>> of truth. You are claiming that all of these people are wrong, but you are >>> right. Why? >>> >>> I see two possibilities: >>> >>> a) [I suspect you will start here...] Because the Quran says so. The >>> problem is that there are many other sources that make that claim for >>> themselves. Why believe the Quran and not these other sources? >>> >>> b) [...and then you will escape here] Because you *know inside you* that >>> the Quran is the truth. Ok, I have no argument to make against that, but I >>> don't feel that way. Trying to convince me to feel such things like you is >>> insane. I have my own life and experiences. My own sources of >>> transcendence. I respect yours, please respect mine, anything else is >>> insanity and leads to the horrors that we all know about. >>> >>> I think you are a very polite and well-meaning person, and I am sorry >>> that you are stuck in this mental loop. I hope you manage to get out of it >>> soon. >>> >>> Best, >>> Telmo. >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 8:27 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 21 Apr 2016, at 00:15, Samiya Illias wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 20, 2016 at 12:21 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Samya, >>>>>> >>>>>> I already told you that Soufism is, in Islam, and from the >>>>>> theological point of view, the closer to the machine's theology, which is >>>>>> not astonishing given that they are closer to Neoplatonism too (and I >>>>>> have >>>>>> explained that the mathematical theology of the universal machine is >>>>>> close >>>>>> to Neoplatonism, and also to the Neopythagoreanism of the earlier >>>>>> centuries). >>>>>> >>>>>> I have discovered the Alevi Bektashi sects since, and they confirmed >>>>>> my feeling, not only with respect to the theological science, but also >>>>>> with >>>>>> respect to practice and their openness to other religion (which *is* a >>>>>> sign >>>>>> of genuine faith in the machine's faith). >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you know them? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I didn't know about this sect, but just read it up on Wikipedia. There >>>>> are several sects in Islam, as in all other religions. Though I disagree >>>>> with their beliefs, I will not comment upon it or criticise it, as I am >>>>> held back by these verses of the Quran: >>>>> >>>>> Indeed, those who divide their religion and become sects, you are not >>>>> with them in anything. Only their affair (is) with Allah, then He will >>>>> inform them of what they used to do. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/159/ >>>>> >>>>> And hold firmly to (the) rope (of) Allah all together and (do) not be >>>>> divided. And remember (the) Favor (of) Allah on you when you were enemies >>>>> then He made friendship between your hearts then you became by His Favor >>>>> brothers. And you were on (the) brink (of) pit of the Fire then He saved >>>>> you from it. Thus Allah makes clear for you His Verses so that you may >>>>> (be) >>>>> guided. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/3/103/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I realise also that Ataturk made a big mistake. Wanting to eliminate >>>>>> the weight of religion in Turkey, he persecuted them and installed the >>>>>> Sunni instead, which are rarely open to other religion and can often use >>>>>> the "argument" of force (as we can see today in some countries, alas). >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.islamicpluralism.org/2340/the-bektashi-alevi-continuum-from-the-balkans-to >>>>>> >>>>>> On the french wikipedia, they assert also that the veil is not >>>>>> obligatory, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I agree that the veil is not obligatory. It is not even ordained to >>>>> ordinary Muslims in the Quran. The veil or partition was ordained upon the >>>>> believers as regards to the Prophet's wives in Chapter 33: >>>>> >>>>> O you who believe! (Do) not enter (the) houses (of) the Prophet except >>>>> when permission is given to you for a meal, without awaiting its >>>>> preparation. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have >>>>> eaten, >>>>> then disperse and not seeking to remain for a conversation. Indeed, that >>>>> was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of (dismissing) you. But Allah is >>>>> not shy of the truth. *And when you ask them (for) anything then ask >>>>> them from behind a screen. That (is) purer for your hearts and their >>>>> hearts.* And not is for you that you trouble (the) Messenger (of) >>>>> Allah and not that you should marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, >>>>> that >>>>> is near Allah an enormity. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/53/ >>>>> >>>>> Consider the above in the light of these verses which precede verse 53 >>>>> in the same chapter: >>>>> >>>>> The Prophet (is) closer to the believers than their own selves, and >>>>> his wives (are) their mothers. And possessors (of) relationships, some of >>>>> them (are) closer to another in (the) Decree (of) Allah than the believers >>>>> and the emigrants, except that you do to your friends a kindness. That is >>>>> in the Book written. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/6/ >>>>> >>>>> O wives (of) the Prophet! You are not like anyone among the women. If >>>>> you fear (Allah), then (do) not be soft in speech, lest should be moved >>>>> with he who, in his heart (is) a disease, but say a word appropriate. And >>>>> stay in your houses and (do) not display yourselves (as was the) display >>>>> (of the times of) ignorance the former. And establish the prayer and give >>>>> zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Only Allah wishes to remove from >>>>> you the impurity, (O) People (of) the House! And to purify you (with >>>>> thorough) purification. And remember what is recited in your houses of >>>>> (the) Verses (of) Allah and the wisdom. Indeed, Allah is All-Subtle, >>>>> All-Aware. Indeed, the Muslim men and the Muslimen, and the believing men >>>>> and the believing women, and the obedient men and the obedient women, and >>>>> the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the >>>>> patient women, and the humble men and the humble women, and the men who >>>>> give charity and the women who give charity and the men who fast and the >>>>> women who fast, and the men who guard their chastity and the women who >>>>> guard (it), and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember >>>>> Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a reward great. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/32/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/33/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/34/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/33/35/ >>>>> >>>>> Relevant to the veil is also the issue of Head Cover. Someone on >>>>> another list raised a question about head cover a while back. This is how >>>>> I >>>>> understand it: http://islam-qna.blogspot.com/2016/01/head-cover.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> and that the bektashi woman can marry without any problem a man with >>>>>> another religion. The woman bektashi prays together with the man, which >>>>>> is >>>>>> nice, but also religiously serious if I can say. Woman are treated like >>>>>> man. They are egalitarian, and have often fight against the use of >>>>>> authority in religion and politics. Nor do they pray in the direction of >>>>>> the Mecca. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Regarding prayer and direction, we can sometimes pray together or >>>>> segregated at the Grand Mosque at Mecca, as the situation may be. In many >>>>> other mosques, separate arrangements are made for men and women, while in >>>>> some local/small mosques, there is only prayer area for men, while women >>>>> pray at home. >>>>> >>>>> Quran, Chapter 2, verses 142 onwards mention the Qibla, and the >>>>> following verse orders and explains it thus: >>>>> *And from wherever you start forth [so] turn your face (in the) >>>>> direction (of) Al-Masjid Al-Haraam. And wherever that you (all) are [so] >>>>> turn your faces (in) its direction*, *so that not will be for the >>>>> people against you any argument* except those who wronged among them; >>>>> so (do) not fear them, but fear Me. And that I complete My favor upon you >>>>> [and] so that you may (be) guided. As We sent among you a Messenger from >>>>> you (who) recites to you Our verses and purifies you and teaches you the >>>>> Book and the wisdom and teaches you what not you were knowing. So remember >>>>> Me, I will remember you and be grateful to Me and (do) not (be) ungrateful >>>>> to Me. O you who believe[d]! Seek help through patience and the prayer. >>>>> Indeed, Allah (is) with the patient ones. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/150/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/151/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/152/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/153/ >>>>> >>>>> The turning towards Qibla in Mecca is simply following the order for >>>>> unity, and not an act of piety, as clarified by the following verse: >>>>> It is not [the] righteousness that you turn your faces towards the >>>>> east and the west, [and] but the righteous[ness] (is he) who believes in >>>>> Allah and the Day [the] Last, and the Angels, and the Book, and the >>>>> Prophets, and gives the wealth in spite of his love (for it) (to) the near >>>>> relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and (of) the wayfarer, and >>>>> those >>>>> who ask, and in freeing the necks (slaves) and (who) establish the prayer, >>>>> and give the zakah, and those who fulfill their covenant when they make >>>>> it; >>>>> and those who are in [the] suffering and [the] hardship, and (the) time >>>>> (of) [the] stress. Those (are) the ones who are true and those, [they] >>>>> (are) the righteous. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/177/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The Alevi (alone) people have originally claim that their religion is >>>>>> anterior to Islam, despite close to Shi'ism after the influence of >>>>>> Muhammad and Ali (Muhammad's nephew and sun in law). There are obvious >>>>>> link >>>>>> with Zoroastrism (the "mother" of the abrahamic religion). >>>>>> >>>>>> I find them very interesting. The main point closer to machine's >>>>>> theology, is that they have a non literal, mystic interpretation of the >>>>>> Quran, >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Suppose >>>>> (i) someone receives a legal notice, and does not read it literally: >>>>> would that be an intelligent or sensible thing to do? >>>>> (ii) someone is entering into a contract with someone, and does not >>>>> read the agreement literally: will this ignorance of the contract hold as >>>>> an excuse if things do not go well and they eventually have to go to >>>>> court? >>>>> (iii) you write a paper or an email, and the recipients do not read it >>>>> literally, even though they have a high regard for you and your knowledge, >>>>> but choose to instead only keep it? suppose you wrote important >>>>> information >>>>> and vital instructions in it, not following which would cause the reader >>>>> terrible loss, then would the recipients not be terribly unjust to >>>>> themselves by not attempting to study, understand and follow it? >>>>> >>>>> What proof is there that the mystic non-literal interpretations are >>>>> correct, and which one? >>>>> >>>>> Why would God send a non-literal text when God created all languages >>>>> and can clearly express and instruct in any language? I believe that the >>>>> Quran is a guidance for all believers*, so that they have the opportunity >>>>> in this life to do good deeds accordingly and prove themselves worthy of >>>>> God's forgiveness, and thus be purified** and granted inheritance of the >>>>> Gardens of Eden. >>>>> >>>>> As the Quran itself states: >>>>> *Only you (can) warn (him) who follows the Reminder and fears the Most >>>>> Gracious in the unseen*. So give him glad tidings of forgiveness and >>>>> a reward noble. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/36/11/ >>>>> >>>>> And not We taught him [the] poetry, and not it is befitting for him. *Not >>>>> it (is) except a Reminder and a Quran clear, To warn (him) who is alive >>>>> and >>>>> may be proved true the Word against the disbelievers*. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/36/69/ ; >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/36/70/ >>>>> >>>>> Say, "What thing (is) greatest (as) a testimony?" Say, "Allah (is) >>>>> Witness between me and between you, and has been revealed to me *this >>>>> [the] Quran that I may warn you with it and whoever it reaches*. Do >>>>> you truly testify that with Allah (there are) gods other?" Say, "I (do) >>>>> not >>>>> testify." Say, "Only He (is) One God, and indeed, I am free of what you >>>>> associate (with Him) >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/19/ >>>>> >>>>> The Quran claims repeatedly that it is explained in detail: >>>>> http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/03/explained-in-detail.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *believers: God knows who is a believer in the only true God, and who >>>>> is a hypocrite, and who is a polytheist, and who is a disbeliever. I think >>>>> these terminologies used in the Quran are independent of the religious >>>>> titles we are born with or profess. Thus, the Quran exhorts: >>>>> And remind, for indeed, the reminder benefits the believers. >>>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/51/55/ >>>>> >>>>> **purified: I understand the purification to be that our software is >>>>> restored to its pristine original perfect condition, as I've discussed in >>>>> my Mission of the Messengers blogposts, about how the Adam's genome got >>>>> corrupted, and we have inherited it: >>>>> http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/11/mission-of-messengers-iii.html >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I will take a look at some of those links, but the reason why I think >>>>> we should not interpret literally the sacred text is that the "divine >>>>> experience" is not communicable as such. It can inspire legal texts, but I >>>>> take democracy as a human progress, and I prefer people voting the laws, >>>>> than making them relying on the divine, because too many people could >>>>> abuse >>>>> them. In invoking the divine in the terrestrial affair, we automatically >>>>> make an argument from authority, which cannot be valid. >>>>> >>>>> An official religion is sometimes a sect which has succeeded. The >>>>> Quran says that we should not divide islam or religion, but that is >>>>> exactly >>>>> the spirit of the backteshi people: they manage to see what is common in >>>>> all religion and build from that. officials and sectarian people points on >>>>> the difference, which most of the time are details, which can be useful in >>>>> some context, but should not be taken as literal truth. Today many muslims >>>>> fight against each other: it is because of details, which strictly >>>>> speaking >>>>> have nothing to do with the divine message, and all to do with terrestrial >>>>> power. It the literalism which prevents to see the truth behind the means >>>>> of its expression, and that truth is available to any creature which looks >>>>> inward. It is a personal undertaking, where it is better to not let anyone >>>>> standing between you and the "glass of Milk" (to not given It a name). >>>>> >>>> >>>> According to the Quran, the most beautiful names denoting perfection >>>> belong to Allah, and we are encouraged to address Allah with those names: >>>> >>>> And for Allah (are) the names - the most beautiful, so invoke Him by >>>> them. And leave those who deviate concerning His names. They will be >>>> recompensed for what they used to do. >>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/7/180/ >>>> >>>> Allah - (there is) no god except Him. To Him (belong) the Names, the >>>> Most Beautiful. >>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/20/8/ >>>> >>>> He (is) Allah, the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner. For Him (are) >>>> the names the beautiful. Glorifies Him whatever (is) in the heavens and the >>>> earth. And He (is) the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. >>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/59/24/ >>>> >>>> List, translation and recitation of the 99 names of Allah mentioned in >>>> the Quran >>>> http://www.searchtruth.com/Allah/99Names.php >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> There is no intermediate between a person and the ultimate truth. I >>>>> have the feeling that literalism makes the prophet(s) into a sort of >>>>> intermediate, but this might already be a blasphem, at least in the >>>>> "correct religion" of the honest introspectibe being (machine or more >>>>> general). >>>>> >>>> >>>> There is no intercessor between a worshipper and Allah. Quran strictly >>>> refutes the concept of intermediates. We pray directly to Allah. >>>> >>>> And warn with it those who fear that they will be gathered to their >>>> Lord, not for them other than Him any protector and not any intercessor, so >>>> that they may (become) righteous. >>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/6/51/ >>>> >>>> A list of ten verses refuting intercessor: >>>> http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=intercessor&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all >>>> >>>> >>>> The Scripture is revealed indirectly because: >>>> And it was not (vouchsafed) to any mortal that Allah should speak to >>>> him unless (it be) by revelation or from behind a veil, or (that) He >>>> sendeth a messenger to reveal what He will by His leave. Lo! He is Exalted, >>>> Wise. >>>> http://islamawakened.com/quran/42/51/ Translator: Pickthall >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> We have already discussed this. I gave only the Bektashi Alevi Muslim >>>>> branch as a nice example of people calling themselves Muslim and which are >>>>> very close to the mathematical theology of the ideally correct machines. >>>>> For the Sufi, that point was not so clear (especially concerning some >>>>> modern sects). >>>>> >>>>> To expand ourself in the galaxy, we need the mechanist machine >>>>> theology (many machine will be non mechanist too, as the machine soul >>>>> cannot believe she is a machine). We must be open that God's creatures can >>>>> be very different on different planets and galaxies. Again a case where >>>>> literalism can divide instead of uniting. I think. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Why? We already believe in the unseen, for example the existence of >>>> jinns made from fire (energy lifeforms perhaps?) >>>> >>>> Samiya >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Bruno >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Samiya >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> which is directly reflected in their spiritual flexibility and >>>>>> openness to *apparently different* faith. They understand that sacred >>>>>> texts >>>>>> are parabola to help the attempt to the personal experience of the >>>>>> divine, >>>>>> which is very often discouraged if not forbidden once a religion is >>>>>> institutionalized. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> >>>>>> Bruno >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com >>>>>> . >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
