The contradiction is in requiring computation which is a mathematical notion, if physicalism is true, so everything reduce to matter, computationalism is false by definition, as computation as such is not a physical notion.
Regards, Quentin Le 23 avr. 2017 00:42, "Bruce Kellett" <[email protected]> a écrit : > On 23/04/2017 12:52 am, Telmo Menezes wrote: > >> On Sat, Apr 22, 2017 at 6:12 AM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> On 4/21/2017 3:42 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>> >>>> John is accusing you of naive dualism. He says that you claim that >>>> there is some mysterious substance (he finally called it a "soul") >>>> that is not copied in your thought experiment. What I claim is this: >>>> under physicalist assumptions, everything was copied. The problem is >>>> that physicalism leads to a contradiction, >>>> >>> >>> I don't agree that it leads to a contradiction. Can spell out what that >>> contradiction is? >>> >> Shortly (sorry for any lack of rigour): >> If you assume computationalism, the computation that is currently >> supporting your mind state can be repeated in time and space. Maybe >> your current computation happens in the original planet Earth but also >> in a Universal Dovetailer running on a Jupiter-sized computer in a >> far-away galaxy. Given a multiverse, it seems reasonable to assume >> that these repetitions are bound to happen (also with the simulation >> argument, etc.). And yet our mind states are experienced as unique. It >> follows that, given computationalism, mind cannot be spatially or >> temporally situated, thus cannot be physical. >> > > This does not demonstrate any contradiction with physicalism. In fact, you > examples are all completely consistent with the requirement that any > computation requires a physical substrate -- "a Universal Dovetailer > running on a Jupiter-sized computer in a far-away galaxy" is a completely > physical concept. > > Even given computationalism -- the idea that you consciousness is a > computation -- there is no contradiction with physicalism. You have to add > something else -- namely, hard mathematical platonism, the idea that all > computations exist in the abstract, in platonia, and do not require > physical implementation. But that is merely the assumption that physicalism > is false. So it may be the case that mathematical platonism does not > require a physical universe, but it does not contradict physicalism: it is > perfectly possible that your consciousness is a computation, and that > mathematical platonism is true, but that there is still a primitive > physical universe and that any actual computations require a physical > substrate -- as JC keeps insisting. > > No contradiction has been demonstrated. > > Bruce > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
