On 25/04/2017 7:30 pm, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 25 Apr 2017, at 03:44, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 4/24/2017 1:00 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 23 Apr 2017, at 13:38, Bruce Kellett wrote:
On 23/04/2017 8:52 pm, Quentin Anciaux wrote:
It's you who's begging the question, first define what is a
computation with physics first, without relying on abstract
mathematical notion.
A computation with physics is what is happening in the computer I
am currently working on. I can describe this in mathematical
notation if you wish, but the process is not the notation. Any
process that takes input and produces output is a computation. All
physical objects do this. And physical objects do not know any
mathematics.
You assume that there are primary physical object.
Bruce's post refers to physical objects (one of which he perceives
immediately), but nothing he says depends on the physical objects
being "primary".
His last remark shows that he is interested in physics. But then why
does he participate in a discussion which is in
metaphysics/theology/cognitive-science?
I was interested to see if you had anything useful to offer. Also, it
seems to be a good idea to have a few contrary voices on this list --
otherwise you would be speaking in an echo chamber where everybody
thought alike. Or else just preaching to the choir. That is never a
healthy situation.
Pirmary matter is an hypothesis that we do in metaphysics/theology,
not in physics.
So if computationalism is just metaphysics/theology, what has it got to
do with the real world? You say that 2 + 2 = 4 is a fact in reality. But
that is a fact only in arithmetical reality. It relates to the physical
world only if one defines a mapping between the symbols and experienced
objects. So you have to map the computations of the dovetailer to the
world, and that mapping is not part of the definition of the dovetailer.
You seem to want to construct the necessary mapping by reference to the
perceived world, but that makes the perceived world logically prior to
your account of it -- you can't account for it unless you already assume it.
Bruce
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