On Thu, Apr 27, 2017 at 5:11 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The correct answer, the best prediction is "Moscow or Washington". > OK that is the answer, but what is the question? Who is it we're talking about, who will or will not see Moscow and/or Washington? > > > Leading to the 1p indeterminacy. > The Helsinki man is in Helsinki, the Washington man is the Helsinki man who will see Washington, and the Moscow man is the Helsinki man who will see Moscow. Nothing is indeterminate except your inability to uniquely specify what "*THE* future 1p" means in a world with people duplicating machines. And that idiot diary will be of no help because BOTH the Washington man and the Moscow man remember writing it. > > > You could as well criticize quantum mechanics by telling us it does not > predict where the particle collide with the screen. > And if a key part of quantum mechanics was "*THE* future 1p photon" with no coherent explanation of what that meant I would indeed criticize it. >> >> BM would feel to be in Moscow AND BM would feel to be in Washington. > > > > > Yes, but you can't derive from this that BM would feel to be in both > Moscow and Washington at once. > You're a logician so see if you can solve this puzzle, it's hard I know but give it a try. There is a parrot right now in Moscow and there is a parrot right now in Washington; is there a parrot right now in Moscow and Washington? > > > computationalism makes impossible that any BM will feel to see both cities, > That's not true either. After the duplication the two Bruno Marchals enjoyed both Washington and Moscow for 24 hours, after that the process was reversed and they merged back together again into one person, but all the memories of both were retained. So today you (that personal pronoun can be safely used because there is only one Bruno marchal again) have vivid memories of both Moscow and Washington at exactly the same time. So 2 days ago back in Helsinki the correct answer to the question "what city will you see?" would be "both". The only difference this modification has over the previous thought experiment is it removes all ambiguity over the word "you" and it even makes clear what "the future 1p" means. > > > Of course the W-BM will answer washington, for that unique city, and M-BM > will answer Moscow, both will assess that the prediction "only one city > among W and M" was correct. > Maybe W-BM and M-BM would answer that way I don't know, I don't even know if BM can experience anything at all, maybe BM is a zombie. But I do know both W-JKC and M-JKC would say the correct answer back in Helsinki would have been JKC will see both cities. >> >> >> Yesterday I predicted that today there would be a cat in Washington but >> you directly refuted my prediction by proving that today there is a cat in >> Moscow, > > > > > ? > ! >> >> and obviously there can't be a cat in both Washington AND Moscow. Can you >> find any flaw in that reasoning or do you consider it airtight? > > > > > I don't see the relevance of this, nor do I understand the meaning. > That is a pity. >> >> >> In Helsinki BM >> can predict that the Washington man will feel to be in Washington and >> the Moscow man will feel to be in Moscow and both will remember once being >> the Helsinki man. >> > > > > But that does not predict any possible experience that the BM in Helsinki > will live, > I thought you said during the duplication BM's body in Helsinki is destroyed, if that's so then I predict after that instant BM will no longer experience Helsinki although all the memories of that city will be retained by both the Washington man and the Moscow man. So I ask again, where is the indeterminacy? John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
