> On 8 Mar 2018, at 21:11, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > > > > On 3/8/2018 7:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 7 Mar 2018, at 15:24, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 1:27 AM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 3/5/2018 11:49 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 1:37 AM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 3/5/2018 9:14 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >>>> >>>> "Could" implies a question about possibilities. It's certainly logically >>>> possible that there not be such a disease as leukemia. Is it nomologically >>>> possible?...not as far as we know. >>>> >>>> Well I'm not sure it's logically possible, for the reasons that Bruno >>>> already addressed. >>>> >>>> >>>> Bruno is assuming that everything not contrary to his theory exists >>>> axiomatically...which is assuming the answer. >>>> >>>> That is a rather uncharitable way of putting it. >>>> >>>> Bruno has discussed his Universal Dovetailer Argument extensively. If >>>> you assume comp and accept the argument, then we are inside of the >>>> dovetailer. The dovetailer is an everything-generator. >>>> >>>> >>>> That's exactly the problem with everythingism. It predicts all the stuff >>>> we >>>> don't see. >>> Bruno, Russell, Tegmark and others tend to concern themselves a lot >>> with why our experience of reality looks like it does on the face of >>> everythingism. That is precisely the "hard part", no? > > They recognize that their theory doesn't account for it. Tegmark makes some > anthropic speculations. Bruno just says, 'I claim nothing, except that > mechanism and materialism are incompatible, and that the mind-body problem is > reduced into deriving physics from the “material” variants of machine’s ideal > rational believability/justifiability.' It's not at all clear to me that > "reduced" in the appropriate verb...as though it is simpler or more > fundamental. Even if you accept his step 7 it has only "reduced" the problem > to explaining the existence of physics and this particular physics, from the > assumption of arithmetic and the UD.
That is not completely correct. My theory is just digital mechanism (it is believed by 99,99% of scientists). The theorem is that physics is reduced to number theology entirely, making mechanism completely testable, and up to now confirmed by observation. The net gain is that we get the exact relationship between quanta and qualia (where physicalist just eliminate qualia or dismiss consciousness as an epiphenomenon, which it is not). > > It's my view that it may be simpler to explain physics and this physics and > consciousness from physics. That would be circular, and not better than explaining God by assuming God, or Matter by assuming Matter, or consciousness, by assuming consciousness. That is equivalent with not trying to explain. > So I could say the mind-body problem has been reduced to explaining > consciousness from physics...not even necessarily fundamental physics. That explain 1/2 of the mind. That explains why we can attribute consciousness to our peers, but that fail to explain how my first person experience is contrived by this physical reality. You have to explain what in the physical universe is capable of selecting the computations (arithmetical notion). If that thing is Turing emulable, then the physical cannot play a role, if it is not Turing emulable, then I am OK, but out of my working hypothesis. The whole point is that this is testable, and today, only mechanism get a coherent relation between quanta and qualia (physics usually does not address that question, and physicalism has put the qualia question under the rug of its ontological commitment, made without any evidence). > >> It is the hard part of the matter problem, when we understand that with >> mechanism, the everything is no more that the sigma_1 arithmetical reality, >> which I think everyone believe in, except the ultra-intuitionist. >> >> Brent seemed to have understood this once, but seems to forget it recently >> apparently. >> >> If someone believe in a primal physical universe *and* in the survive of >> consciousness through the digital transformation, it is up to them to >> explain how the primal universe (and what is it?) acts on arithmetic for >> making some computations seems more real than others. >> >> I claim nothing, except that mechanism and materialism are incompatible, and >> that the mind-body problem is reduced into deriving physics from the >> “material” variants of machine’s ideal rational believability/justifiability. > > Or why fewer than all arithmetical relations are realized in physics. No, that is already explained by the difference between the eight phenomenological modes of self-references. The believable, knowable and observable obeys different logics which structure the arithmetical reality in completely different ways. Physics is a completely different mathematics than psychology. Arithmetical relations are not realised in physics. Physics is more like a classifier of relative dreams in arithmetic. Bruno > > Brent > >> And then it works at the propositional level, so we can say that today, we >> have not yet detected any evidence for a primal universe through our >> observation of nature. >> >> Let us encourage the pursue of the testing, simply. >> >> Bruno > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to email@example.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.