On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 11:38 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> > wrote: > >>> >>> >> You walk into a bakery and see a cake and you assume the baker made >>> >> the cake. Do you also assume the baker made the flower in the cake, and >>> >> the >>> >> carbon in the flower, and the protons in the carbon, and the quarks in >>> >> the >>> >> protons? >> >> >> >> > No, because the cake is an improbable thing, while protons are probable >> > things. I don't know how probable consciousness is. > > > But I do know that the bakers brain is far more improbable than a cake > , > and mass and an electromagnetic field and temperature are even more probable > than protons, so why do you demand Evolution produce mass and temperature > and electromagnetic fields but > you > don't demand the baker produce protons?
I demand no such thing. On the contrary, I am pointing out that just because you have a certain property, it doesn't follow that this property was created be evolution. Evolution is a theory about the complexification of biological systems. Nothing more, nothing less. >> > I don't know how probable consciousness is. > > > But I can make a educated guess because I know that most things don't behave > intelagently and I also know that when I become less conscious I also become > less intelligent. > >> > Humans are terribly complex > > > Yes, and evolution didn't bother to put in all that complexity because its a > nice guy and figured we'd like consciousness, it did it because intelligent > behavior has survival value. Human-like intelligent behavior is a successful strategy in a very narrow evolutionary niche. We are one thermonuclear war away from nature "deciding" that human-like intelligence is not so useful after all. Evolution is constant adaptation to the environment, with some self-referenciality because the things evolved become part of, and change the environment. >> > and it might be that consciousness arises from terribly complex things, >> > or from certain types of terribly complex things. But I don't really know >> > and neither do you. > > > I don't really know that human cadavers are not conscious, but they > sure > don't behave intelligently so my hunch is they are not. > W > hat is your hunch? My hunch is that I am mind in a universe made of mind. I believe modern physics is both valid and useful (and a lot of fun), but I do not know that it studies fundamental reality and I believe nobody else knows either. Telmo. > John K > Clark > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
