> On 19 Mar 2018, at 13:13, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 11:38 PM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 12:34 PM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>>> >>>>>> You walk into a bakery and see a cake and you assume the baker made >>>>>> the cake. Do you also assume the baker made the flower in the cake, and >>>>>> the >>>>>> carbon in the flower, and the protons in the carbon, and the quarks in >>>>>> the >>>>>> protons? >>> >>> >>> >>>> No, because the cake is an improbable thing, while protons are probable >>>> things. I don't know how probable consciousness is. >> >> >> But I do know that the bakers brain is far more improbable than a cake >> , >> and mass and an electromagnetic field and temperature are even more probable >> than protons, so why do you demand Evolution produce mass and temperature >> and electromagnetic fields but >> you >> don't demand the baker produce protons? > > I demand no such thing. On the contrary, I am pointing out that just > because you have a certain property, it doesn't follow that this > property was created be evolution. Evolution is a theory about the > complexification of biological systems. Nothing more, nothing less. > >>>> I don't know how probable consciousness is. >> >> >> But I can make a educated guess because I know that most things don't behave >> intelagently and I also know that when I become less conscious I also become >> less intelligent. >> >>>> Humans are terribly complex >> >> >> Yes, and evolution didn't bother to put in all that complexity because its a >> nice guy and figured we'd like consciousness, it did it because intelligent >> behavior has survival value. > > Human-like intelligent behavior is a successful strategy in a very > narrow evolutionary niche. We are one thermonuclear war away from > nature "deciding" that human-like intelligence is not so useful after > all. Evolution is constant adaptation to the environment, with some > self-referenciality because the things evolved become part of, and > change the environment. > >>>> and it might be that consciousness arises from terribly complex things, >>>> or from certain types of terribly complex things. But I don't really know >>>> and neither do you. >> >> >> I don't really know that human cadavers are not conscious, but they >> sure >> don't behave intelligently so my hunch is they are not. >> W >> hat is your hunch? > > My hunch is that I am mind in a universe made of mind. I believe > modern physics is both valid and useful (and a lot of fun), but I do > not know that it studies fundamental reality and I believe nobody else > knows either.
May be you ask to much. In science we never “know” anything for sure. We know only in the theatetus’ sense, that is sometimes our beliefs are true, but only God knows that … The universe can be said made of mind, but “made of” is still a physicalist way to talk. It is simpler: the universe is dreamed by numbers, or more exactly is the first person statistics on all computations going through our state. I found the quantum (even quantum computation) from this before I discovered that Everett quantum mechanism (QM without collapse) confirms this way of considering the physical reality (with histories in place of “worlds”, which is a term never defined by physicists, who are still mostly Aristotelian). Best, Bruno PS Hmm… I have to go already. > > Telmo. > >> John K >> Clark >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
