> On 19 Mar 2018, at 22:54, Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 05:19:11PM -0400, John Clark wrote: >> On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote >> >> *> octopuses are fairly intelligent but their neural structure is >>> distributed very differently from mammals of similar intelligence. An >>> artificial intelligence that was not modeled on mammalian brain structure >>> might be intelligent but not conscious* >> >> >> Maybe maybe maybe. >> A >> nd you don't have have the exact same brain structure as I have so you >> might be intelligent but not conscious. I said it before I'll say it again, >> consciousness theories are useless, and not just the ones on this list, all >> of them. >> >> John K Clark > > In my backyard, pretty much about 200m from where I'm sitting now, we > have these amazing creatures called giant cuttlefish.
Wonderful! > These are about > the size of a dog (which breed of dog you say? - well yes there's that > sort of variation in size too). They (like most cephalopods) are > masters of camouflage. To be really effective in camouflage, you need > to know what the things you're hiding from is seeing. Cuttlefish use > different camo patterns and communication methods depending on whether they're > trying to avoid sharks or dolphins. I had the experience of one of > these animals approaching me looking for all the world like a bunch of > kelp. The instant I saw its eyes, it knew its disguise was blown, and > it scarpered. I had the strong feeling that here was an animal reading > my mind as I its. I can't be sure, of course, but I'm pretty convinced > from that cuttlefish are conscious beings. Yes. Maybe less deluded than us. > It seems hard to imagine them > being able to understand other animals minds without also being aware > of their own, and their place in the world. They are wonderful animals. The octopus too. Now, is a jellyfish conscious? I bet they are, but not far away from the dissociative and constant arithmetical consciousness (of the universal machines). The Löbian Universal Machine is, in some sense, less conscious than the simpler universal machine. Robinson arithmetic might be more conscious than Peano arithmetic. The quasi-ultrafinitists might be right on this: the induction axioms might be the beginning of the delusion.The first sin (grin). Then I guess consciousness’ volume evolves like the n-dimentional volume of spheres, which grow up to dimension 5 and then decrease and tend to zero with n growing arbitrarily. You need some hundreds of neurons to implement a Turing universal neuronal system, it might be close to maximally conscious, but in a quite “altered state” (compared to mundane consciousness), then by multiplying the neurons, you get more room from the models of its histories, and consciousness ‘volume” grows, but 99,8 of consciousness content is delusion, once you reject the “ontological” induction, and the histories are relative filtering of consciousness in the consistent computational continuations. The real question is not “How to live forever?”. The real question is “How to NOT live forever?”. How to cut the cycle of death and birth? Otto Rossler summed up Mechanism by “Consciousness is a prison”. It is rather frightening, I think. I wish sometime Mechanism to be false! We must try Heaven, and avoid Hell. Arithmetic is big, especially from inside. And we have only partial control but also partial mean to awaken ourself of possible nightmares, at diverse degrees. Bruno > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) > Principal, High Performance Coders > Visiting Senior Research Fellow hpco...@hpcoders.com.au > Economics, Kingston University http://www.hpcoders.com.au > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
