On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 3:35:01 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
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> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 3:03:42 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
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>> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:49:13 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
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>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:30:31 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:17:44 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 8:32:17 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been around the block on these matters with you. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *In your imagination. AG*
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You have been stuck on these matters since the early days of Vic's 
>>>>> discussion forum. In spite of mine and other's efforts you keep "not 
>>>>> getting it." I can't write a treatise here. It would be a waste of time. 
>>>>> If 
>>>>> you want to read a book on this look at Redhead's book on the metaphysics 
>>>>> of QM. I can't advise any further, but you will have to study this in 
>>>>> greater depth and be willing to cast intuitive and metaphysical baggage 
>>>>> aside.
>>>>>
>>>>> LC
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I haven't been stuck on anything. As I recall, VIc fell in love with 
>>>> his theory that time reversal explains non locality. Few took his 
>>>> explanation seriously, which had many holes (proof by hand waving as it 
>>>> was, and there are precious few, if any professional physicists who take 
>>>> his proposal seriously. It was in one of his early books IIRC, and no 
>>>> references to it in the literature. And physicists are all over the map on 
>>>> this one, but most find it baffling. I know what you've done. You've just 
>>>> cobbled together some words that make you happy and create the illusion 
>>>> you 
>>>> undIstand the phenomenon. Now you assume an arrogant position. You can say 
>>>> the pairs are non separable and I wouldn't disagree with the words, but 
>>>> when one side is measured randomly, the issue is how the other side 
>>>> adjusts 
>>>> to keep momentum conserved if it is space-like separated. If the subject 
>>>> was solved, as you falsely claim, there wouldn't be any resort to the MWI 
>>>> to allege explanations. Like I said, you can enjoy your words, and they 
>>>> may 
>>>> fool yourself, but not me.  AG 
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you came off your high horse for a moment, you'd realize that Vic 
>>> introduced time reversal to explain non locality because he couldn't 
>>> understand it otherwise! And he was writing to explain an ostensibly 
>>> inexplicable result because there was an unfulfilled need in the community 
>>> for a model. So unless Vic was a total moron when it came to physics, the 
>>> understanding of the phenomena is obviously not clear and apparent as you 
>>> would have it, your advanced metaphysical understanding notwithstanding. AG 
>>>
>>
>> Never heard of Redhead. Never heard of any reference to it in any 
>> discussion of non locality. Maybe he's an outlier, like Joy Christian, and 
>> many find his arguments weak, or maybe he figured it out. What's the title 
>> of his book? I am not so arrogant as to deny that possibility, but nothing 
>> anyone has written here or on Vic's group indicates a viable model, or even 
>> close. Tossing around words like "non separable" just doesn't cut it. AG 
>>
>
> No listing of any book by Redhead on Amazon. AG 
>

You must be referring to Michael Redhead, who didn't write a book but has 
an article on EPR published last fall. No citations so probably not hugely 
insightful, and not easy to download. Requires downloading a program to 
alter Chrome, which I don't want. AG 

>
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you refuse to accept them then fine. I can't spend my time trying 
>>>>>>> to convince creationists of evolution and I can't try to convince 
>>>>>>> people 
>>>>>>> who's metaphysical baggage prevents them from accepting something that 
>>>>>>> we 
>>>>>>> know is empirically correct.
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> *If you were paying even casual attention you'd know I never disputed 
>>>>>> the empirical finding. AG*
>>>>>>  
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Quantum mechanics with its nonlocality and entanglement tells us 
>>>>>>> that a quantum system is in many places at once. If I perform a 
>>>>>>> rotation on 
>>>>>>> one part of an EPR pair, say by adjusting a magnetic field, the other 
>>>>>>> part 
>>>>>>> similarly adjusts. The reason is not because there is a causal 
>>>>>>> communication, but because the two parts of the EPR pair are not 
>>>>>>> separable 
>>>>>>> in space; they are in fact just the same thing, and further this 
>>>>>>> wholeness 
>>>>>>> is epistemologically greater. 
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I see. The two parts or subsystems are not separable in space 
>>>>>> despite the fact that the two measurement devices are, and both 
>>>>>> subsystems 
>>>>>> are the same thing even though their arguably simultaneous measurements 
>>>>>> differ. If that makes you happy, I have no quarrel. AG*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Curiously with quantum field theory a lot of nonlocality is swept 
>>>>>>> under the rug. The vanishing of equal time commutators on spatial 
>>>>>>> manifolds 
>>>>>>> demolishes a lot of this. With quantum fields though since entangled 
>>>>>>> systems are short lived and decay the entanglement phase is quickly 
>>>>>>> scrambled into the reservoir of states in the measurement apparatus. It 
>>>>>>> is 
>>>>>>> why the LHC is not used to research the foundations of quantum 
>>>>>>> mechanics. 
>>>>>>> In fact hadron detectors are colorimeters, which indicates heat an loss 
>>>>>>> of 
>>>>>>> quantum coherence. So the loss of physics is not that significant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, once you bring spacetime into the picture nonlocality 
>>>>>>> returns. This is one reason quantum field theoretic methods have not 
>>>>>>> worked 
>>>>>>> with quantum gravitation. With quantum gravitation nonlocality in fact 
>>>>>>> returns with a vengence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>

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