On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:49:13 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 2:30:31 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, April 15, 2018 at 11:07:41 AM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 4:17:44 PM UTC-5, agrays...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 8:32:17 PM UTC, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
>>>>> I have been around the block on these matters with you. 
>>>> *In your imagination. AG*
>>> You have been stuck on these matters since the early days of Vic's 
>>> discussion forum. In spite of mine and other's efforts you keep "not 
>>> getting it." I can't write a treatise here. It would be a waste of time. If 
>>> you want to read a book on this look at Redhead's book on the metaphysics 
>>> of QM. I can't advise any further, but you will have to study this in 
>>> greater depth and be willing to cast intuitive and metaphysical baggage 
>>> aside.
>>> LC
>> I haven't been stuck on anything. As I recall, VIc fell in love with his 
>> theory that time reversal explains non locality. Few took his explanation 
>> seriously, which had many holes (proof by hand waving as it was, and there 
>> are precious few, if any professional physicists who take his proposal 
>> seriously. It was in one of his early books IIRC, and no references to it 
>> in the literature. And physicists are all over the map on this one, but 
>> most find it baffling. I know what you've done. You've just cobbled 
>> together some words that make you happy and create the illusion you 
>> undIstand the phenomenon. Now you assume an arrogant position. You can say 
>> the pairs are non separable and I wouldn't disagree with the words, but 
>> when one side is measured randomly, the issue is how the other side adjusts 
>> to keep momentum conserved if it is space-like separated. If the subject 
>> was solved, as you falsely claim, there wouldn't be any resort to the MWI 
>> to allege explanations. Like I said, you can enjoy your words, and they may 
>> fool yourself, but not me.  AG 
> If you came off your high horse for a moment, you'd realize that Vic 
> introduced time reversal to explain non locality because he couldn't 
> understand it otherwise! And he was writing to explain an ostensibly 
> inexplicable result because there was an unfulfilled need in the community 
> for a model. So unless Vic was a total moron when it came to physics, the 
> understanding of the phenomena is obviously not clear and apparent as you 
> would have it, your advanced metaphysical understanding notwithstanding. AG 

Never heard of Redhead. Never heard of any reference to it in any 
discussion of non locality. Maybe he's an outlier, like Joy Christian, and 
many find his arguments weak, or maybe he figured it out. What's the title 
of his book? I am not so arrogant as to deny that possibility, but nothing 
anyone has written here or on Vic's group indicates a viable model, or even 
close. Tossing around words like "non separable" just doesn't cut it. AG 

>>>>> If you refuse to accept them then fine. I can't spend my time trying 
>>>>> to convince creationists of evolution and I can't try to convince people 
>>>>> who's metaphysical baggage prevents them from accepting something that we 
>>>>> know is empirically correct.
>>>> *If you were paying even casual attention you'd know I never disputed 
>>>> the empirical finding. AG*
>>>>> Quantum mechanics with its nonlocality and entanglement tells us that 
>>>>> a quantum system is in many places at once. If I perform a rotation on 
>>>>> one 
>>>>> part of an EPR pair, say by adjusting a magnetic field, the other part 
>>>>> similarly adjusts. The reason is not because there is a causal 
>>>>> communication, but because the two parts of the EPR pair are not 
>>>>> separable 
>>>>> in space; they are in fact just the same thing, and further this 
>>>>> wholeness 
>>>>> is epistemologically greater. 
>>>> *I see. The two parts or subsystems are not separable in space despite 
>>>> the fact that the two measurement devices are, and both subsystems are the 
>>>> same thing even though their arguably simultaneous measurements differ. If 
>>>> that makes you happy, I have no quarrel. AG*
>>>>> Curiously with quantum field theory a lot of nonlocality is swept 
>>>>> under the rug. The vanishing of equal time commutators on spatial 
>>>>> manifolds 
>>>>> demolishes a lot of this. With quantum fields though since entangled 
>>>>> systems are short lived and decay the entanglement phase is quickly 
>>>>> scrambled into the reservoir of states in the measurement apparatus. It 
>>>>> is 
>>>>> why the LHC is not used to research the foundations of quantum mechanics. 
>>>>> In fact hadron detectors are colorimeters, which indicates heat an loss 
>>>>> of 
>>>>> quantum coherence. So the loss of physics is not that significant.
>>>>> However, once you bring spacetime into the picture nonlocality 
>>>>> returns. This is one reason quantum field theoretic methods have not 
>>>>> worked 
>>>>> with quantum gravitation. With quantum gravitation nonlocality in fact 
>>>>> returns with a vengence.
>>>>> LC

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