On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 7:03 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>> >> By using p-adic numbers mathematicians found more than a century ago >> there are a infinity of ways the numbers could be arranged because there >> are a infinity of ways distance between numbers could be defined and all of >> them are logically consistent. If you want to use Euclidean geometry or >> even the sort of non-Euclidean geometry Einstein used you've got to use >> standard arithmetic, but there are other ways. For example, in the 7-adic >> system the distance between 56666 and 66666 is smaller than the distance >> between 66665 and 66666; and 28814 is closer to 2 than 2 is to 3. > > > >** > *All Turing universal system would do. p-adic numbers presupposes > elementary arithmetic.* > It would be equally true to say elementary arithmetic presupposes p-adic numbers, although humans were not smart enough to figure that out until 1897. Out of all the ways numbers could be manipulated there is only one thing that is unique about arithmetic, its not unique because its the only one that is self consistent, its unique because its the only one that is consistent with physical reality and the laws of physics. > ** > *The notion of computations do not rely not on heaven either. Robinson > arithmetic is Turing universal, and that can be proved in Peano Arithmetic.* > And there are only 2 instances when Robinson arithmetic or Peano > Arithmetic exists: > 1) In heaven. > 2) When they are implemented in matter that obeys the laws of physics. > *>If a computation is physical, it has to admit a physical definition. > But apparently you cannot find it.* > Apparently you can't find a definition of “definition”. But never mind, I have something vastly superior to a definition of a physical computation, I can point to an actual example of a physical computation and all you can do is point to a book full of ASCII characters. You can not point to one single example of a non-physical computation. Not one. Examples are far more important and vastly more fundamental than definitions because examples always come first, it is only later that somebody dreams up a definition that fits all the examples in a class. And sometimes a definition never comes at all, most people live their entire lives and manage to communicate just fine in this ultra complex physical world and yet have never seen a dictionary in their lives. That was the error early AI researchers made, they tried to give their machines definitions of everything in the physical world and that didn’t work out very well, today they use examples. > > ** > *something is primary if we have to assume it * > It's so ubiquitous there is no choice but to assume matter, otherwise you couldn't read a book because that is made of matter, you couldn't even think because your brain is made of matter. Heaven is not made of matter and neither is the Luminiferous Aether but our physical world is indifferent to the existence or non-existence of them, in other words physics can't prove they don't exist but it can prove the idea is silly. >* * > *He is uncertain about where he will find itself after the duplication.* > That would be true if the man were like you and didn't understand what the words "YOU WILL BE DUPLICATED" mean. >> >> >> Bruno, you're always talking about definitions but this is one of those >> rare occasions where one is desperately needed, so if you want me to answer >> that question you must first give me a PRECISE definition of exactly what >> you mean by "the Helsinki man". > > > >** > *It is guy who will survive in both Moscow and Washington,* > If that's what "the guy" means then obviously "the guy" will see 2 cities. And before you start with the from the peepee not the poopoo stuff remember it was you who said "the guy" means "the guy who will survive in both Moscow and Washington", if that definition is too simple then give me a better one. I don't have a fetish about definitions as you do but in this case I have a precise unambiguous logically self consistent definition of "The Helsinki Man". Do you? > >> and before I can say we agree about the H-guy I need to know exactly >> precisely what you mean by "the H-guy”. >> >> > > *>The guy before the duplication.* > OK, now with this new definition of yours about what "the H-guy" means "the H-guy" will never see any city **after** the duplication or see anything else for that matter because the defining characteristic of "the H-guy" that you just mentioned is existing **before** the duplication. Try again, maybe the third time is the charm. As for me I think a more useful definition is "the H-guy is anybody who remembers being in Helsinki before the duplication". John K Clark > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
