On 10/15/2018 6:22 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 11 Oct 2018, at 19:26, John Clark <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 12:15 PM Bruno Marchal <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>You can't do metaphysics with a scientific attitude, if you
could it wouldn't be metaphysics, it would just be
physics.Metaphysics means unscientific speculation about physics.
/>That is why I prefer the term theology./
That's pretty silly, metaphysics is a vastly better word to use in
philosophical speculation. Both metaphysics and theology are
unscientific but theology necessarily implies God while metaphysics
doesn't.
That is an opinion of radical pseudo-religious people. There is no
scientific domain. There is only a scientific attitude, and this can
be applied in any domain.
The separation of religion from science is an invention by people
wanting to use religion to control people, and steal their money.
That's silly. Religion existed long before science was developed.
Religion was invented, and believed, by people who wanted to understand
and control their fate in the world. They understood other people who
had desires and motives and got angry and loved and hated, so they
inferred that the weather and seas and the volcano were agents like
people only bigger and more powerful. So they sought to propitiate
these gods and demons by offering them what was precious; including the
lives of their children. Shamans, priests, and kings took advantage of
this by pretending to be intermediaries to the gods and experts in their
propitiation. They invented prayers and rituals and sacrifices.
The "separation" of science from religion was the invention of science
as a way of knowing what was fact and what was superstition. Science
was testing beliefs and holding them only provisionally.
Brent
> /Of course I always mean “fundamental science”./
Theology isn't science, fundamental or otherwise.
As I said, I use the term theology in the original sense of those who
coined that term, and explain it. The god of Plato is the truth that
we search.
Theology is the fundamental science for anyone ready to assume that
there is a reality.
Since Gödel, we know that for rational machine, if there is a reality
satisfying their belief, then the proposition “there is a reality
satisfying my belief” makes them inconsistent.
For such machine “I am consistent” and “there isa reality satisfying
my beliefs” are synonymous. What I just alluded too is Gödel
incompleteness theorem: <>t, that is ~[]f is true IFF there is a model
satisfying t (and, as all models satisfy t, this is equivalent with
saying that such a model exist).
/> The original question of the greeks/[.........
Sorry, I didn't hear what you said after that, I fell asleep.
I guess you do that very often. There is no people more deaf than
those who does not want to listen.
But thanks for the collection of evidence that the non-agnostic
atheists are just radical christians in disguise.
Bruno
John K Clark
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