> On 9 Oct 2018, at 17:19, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 10:09 AM Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > >>There are 2 ways this can be done: > 1) With a wet Turing Machine (aka a brain made of matter) > 2) With a dry Turing Machine (aka a computer made of matter) > Both methods work fine. > > >That is fine FAPP. Meaning: it is not fine when doing metaphysics with the > >scientific attitude. > > You can't do metaphysics with a scientific attitude, if you could it wouldn't > be metaphysics, it would just be physics. Metaphysics means unscientific > speculation about physics.
That is why I prefer the term theology. Of course I always mean “fundamental science”. But metaphysics did not just “speculate on physics”. The original question of the greeks (and the Indians and others) was about the existence of the physical universe, which speculates on mathematics, and theology itself. > > > you cannot invoke “matter” if you want associate consciousness to that > > intelligent behaviour, > > If? Without that association there is no alternative to solipsism. That does not follow. Arithmetic emulates all machines but also all interactions in between machines, relative to other universal machine. > And without matter you can't have intelligent behavior, or even unintelligent > behavior. According to your religion/metaphysical-theory/hypothesis. > > > because the consciousness itself will have to associate itself with the > > infinitely many computations, > > That of course is nonsense. That follows from the Turing universality of a tiny part of arithmetic. That is the part well known (by logicians) since the 1930s. It is astonishing, no doubt. Since the result of Matiyasevitch, all computations are already emulated by a square 4 diophantine polynomial. Bruno > > > You forget the fact that the physical reality is not the only thing capable > > of emulating Turing machine, the elementary arithmetical reality, in fact > > all models of Robinson Arithmetic [blah blah blah blah] > > You've been telling us for years about the wonders of Robinson arithmetic but > stop talking about it and do something with it! Start the Robinson Computer > Corporation and become the world's first trillionaire by this time next year. > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
