On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 8:42 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 1:01:26 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 5:50 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 10:58:24 PM UTC, Jason wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 1:05 PM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 5:59:57 PM UTC, Jason wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Dec 10, 2018 at 11:36 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 3:48:28 PM UTC, Jason wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, December 10, 2018, <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 2:43:59 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:02 PM Philip Thrift <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 9:36:39 AM UTC-6, Jason wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2018 at 2:53 AM Philip Thrift < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 2:27:45 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think truth is primitive. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> As a matter of linguistics (and philosophy), *truth* and >>>>>>>>>>>>> *matter* are linked: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "As a matter of fact, ..." >>>>>>>>>>>>> "The truth of the matter is ..." >>>>>>>>>>>>> "It matters that ..." >>>>>>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ https://www.etymonline.com/word/matter ] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree they are linked. Though matter may be a few steps >>>>>>>>>>>> removed from truth. Perhaps one way to interpret the link more >>>>>>>>>>>> directly is >>>>>>>>>>>> thusly: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> There is an equation whose every solution (where the equation >>>>>>>>>>>> happens to be *true*, e.g. is satisfied when it has certain >>>>>>>>>>>> values assigned to its variables) maps its variables to states of >>>>>>>>>>>> the time >>>>>>>>>>>> evolution of the wave function of our universe. You might say >>>>>>>>>>>> that we >>>>>>>>>>>> (literally not figuratively) live within such an equation. That >>>>>>>>>>>> its truth >>>>>>>>>>>> reifies what we call matter. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But I think truth plays an even more fundamental roll than >>>>>>>>>>>> this. e.g. because the following statement is *true* "two has >>>>>>>>>>>> a successor" then there exists a successor to 2 distinct from any >>>>>>>>>>>> previous >>>>>>>>>>>> number. Similarly, the *truth* of "9 is not prime" implies >>>>>>>>>>>> the existence of a factor of 9 besides 1 and 9. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Schopenhauer 's view: "A judgment has *material truth* if its >>>>>>>>>>>>> concepts are based on intuitive perceptions that are generated >>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>> sensations. If a judgment has its reason (ground) in another >>>>>>>>>>>>> judgment, its >>>>>>>>>>>>> truth is called logical or formal. If a judgment, of, for >>>>>>>>>>>>> example, pure >>>>>>>>>>>>> mathematics or pure science, is based on the forms (space, time, >>>>>>>>>>>>> causality) >>>>>>>>>>>>> of intuitive, empirical knowledge, then the judgment has >>>>>>>>>>>>> transcendental >>>>>>>>>>>>> truth." >>>>>>>>>>>>> [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth ] >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I guess I am referring to transcend truth here. Truth >>>>>>>>>>>> concerning the integers is sufficient to yield the universe, >>>>>>>>>>>> matter, and >>>>>>>>>>>> all that we see around us. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> In my view there is basically just *material* (from matter) >>>>>>>>>>> truth and *linguistic* (from language) truth. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [ https://codicalist.wordpress.com/2018/06/18/to-tell-the-truth/ >>>>>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Relations and functions are linguistic: relational type theory >>>>>>>>>>> (RTT) , functional type theory (FTT) languages. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Numbers are also linguistic beings, the (fictional) semantic >>>>>>>>>>> objects of Peano arithmetic (PA). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Numbers can be "materialized" via *nominalization *(cf. Hartry >>>>>>>>>>> Field, refs. in [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartry_Field ]). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Assuming the primacy of matter assumes more and explains less, >>>>>>>>>> than assuming the primacy of arithmetical truth. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Since one cannot derive QM from arithmetic alone -- one needs >>>>>>>>> additional postulates -- it's a fallacy to think everything is >>>>>>>>> derivable >>>>>>>>> from arithmetic. AG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The above statement is false. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With arithmetic alone (even peano arithmetic) you get the >>>>>>>> emulations of all possible programs. Under the current leading theory >>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> consciousness by those who study the problem, that computation yields >>>>>>>> every >>>>>>>> possible conscious state, including that of your own, in this moment >>>>>>>> right >>>>>>>> now, believing yourself to be in a universe ruled by quantum mechanics. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The appearance of a multiverse is itself a direct consequence of >>>>>>>> every possibility being realized by every program execution. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *So every possible program executes or has executed, giving rise to >>>>>>> (the illusion of) matter? But how does a program execute in the absence >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> matter, which seems to be what you're demanding? AG* >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> Do you agree that "7 is prime" is true, even without a computer >>>>>> executing it or proving it? >>>>>> >>>>>> If so, then do you agree that for positive integers k and x, that >>>>>> "(k*k - k*x - x*x)^2 - 1 = 0" is true only when x is a Fibonacci number, >>>>>> and k is the preceding Fibonacci number or 0? >>>>>> >>>>>> Do you further agree that the above statement remains true, >>>>>> regardless of whether or not a physical computer enumerates every >>>>>> possible >>>>>> k and x value and checking the equation? >>>>>> >>>>>> Then you have a case where mathematical truth, the truth of that >>>>>> equation, enumerates all the Fibonacci numbers (an example of >>>>>> computation). >>>>>> >>>>>> The MRDP theorem >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diophantine_set#Matiyasevich's_theorem>, >>>>>> proved in 1970, established that there are integer equations that >>>>>> enumerate >>>>>> everything that is computable. This means there are equations that when >>>>>> true, enumerate every program and its output, that enumerate the >>>>>> intermediate states of each programs, equations that list all the moves >>>>>> Deep Blue would make in chess, and equations that enumerate successive >>>>>> states of a universe ruled by QM. >>>>>> >>>>>> The existence of these computations in mathematics is undeniable in >>>>>> the same sense that "7 is prime" is undeniable. You can't accept one >>>>>> without accepting the other. So if the primality of 7 does not depend on >>>>>> a >>>>>> physical computer checking it, then neither does the existence of all >>>>>> computations depend on a physical computer executing them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Supposing every thing you write above is true, how does this produce >>>>> the illusion of matter? TIA, AG >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> This is explained in Bruno's work: >>>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/publications/SANE2004MARCHAL.htm >>>> >>>> Also in a recent paper by Markus Muller: >>>> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.01826.pdf >>>> >>> >>> *So you are unable to explain it succinctly. AG * >>> >>>> >>>> >> Succinctly your experience is included in the set of all the experiences >> generated by all computations. >> >> If you want to know why this should leads to stable experiences within a >> larger environment that ruled by simple laws with a simpler time in the >> past, you will need to do some reading. Not every question can be expected >> to have a succinct answer. >> >> Jason >> > > > *Concerning QM, GR, and SR, one can give succinct summaries that are > informative even if incomplete, but you can't do it about your theory on > the origin of matter. So I can't take it seriously. AG* > >> >> > That explains a lot, doesn't it?
Jason > The main conclusions are confirmed by experience, namely: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> - “What I observe seems to be fundamentally nondeterministic; it >>>>> seems that that there is irreducible randomness that governs my >>>>> experience.” >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - “But it seems that this randomness is itself subject to simple >>>>> laws, which I can write down in concise equations. I can feed these >>>>> equations into a computer and use them to predict future observations >>>>> quite >>>>> successfully, even if only probabilistically.” >>>>> >>>>> It also predicts a "Big Bang": >>>> >>>> In particular, we will see that our theory predicts (under the >>>>> assumption just mentioned) that observers should indeed expect to see two >>>>> facts which are features of our physics as we know it: first, the fact >>>>> that >>>>> the observer seems to be part of an external world that evolves in time (a >>>>> “universe”), and second, that this external world seems to have had an >>>>> absolute beginning in the past (the “Big Bang”). >>>> >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
