On 12/11/2018 9:52 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 11:29:13 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote:
On 12/11/2018 12:31 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 7:05:17 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote:
No one is refuting the existence of matter, only the idea
that matter is primary. That is, that matter is not
derivative from something more fundamental.
Jason
I can understand an (immaterial) computationalism (e.g. *The
universal numbers. From Biology to Physics.* Marchal B [
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26140993
<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26140993> ]) as providing a
purely informational basis for (thinking of) matter and
consciousness, but then why would *actual matter* need to come
into existence at all? Actual matter itself would seem to be
superfluous.
If actual matter is not needed for experientiality
(consciousness), and actual matter does no exist at all, then we
live in a type of simulation of pure numericality. There would be
no reason for actual matter to come into existence.
If it feels like matter and it looks like matter and obeys the
equations of matter how is it not "actual" matter? Bruno's idea is
that consciousness of matter and it's effects are all we can know
about matter. So if the "simulation" that is simulating us, also
simulates those conscious thoughts about matter then that's a
"actual" as anything gets. Remember Bruno is a theologian so all
this "simulation" is in the mind of God=arithmetic; and
arithmetic/God is the ur-stuff.
Brent
I suppose that one can argue that *simulata* can replace *materia*
until the cows come home
<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/until_the_cows_come_home>.
(Simulata people think they are materia. Materia people think they are
simulata. ...)
But pragmatically, I'm not sure where this leads. Engineers still
think they are pushing matter around to make things. Not simulations
of the things they think are material.
The point is that there is no difference. There is no distinction
except in the metaphysics used to talk about it. Engineers don't do
metaphysics.
Bret
(For Kant, it was *noumena*.)
- pt
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