> On 13 Dec 2018, at 21:41, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 12/13/2018 4:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>>> See the bit about reversible computing: >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle> (computations >>>>>> that are reversible require no energy). >>>>> >>>>> And they produce no results since they run both ways. They are not even >>>>> computations in the CT sense. >>>> >>>> They are computations in the CT sense. >>> >>> CT computations halt. A program that can just wander back an forth at >>> random doesn't halt. >> >> >> ? >> >> There is no CT for the programs who always halt. Universal machine would not >> exist. The price of being a universal machine is that not only it does not >> always halt, but there is no mechanical procedure deciding when it halts or >> not. > > No, my point was that unless a program halts it has not computed anything.
That reminds me Malcom who disbelieve in consciousness-during-a-dream. That has been refuted experimentally by LaBerge and Dement. Now a dream does not compute anything, and we are conscious all along the working of the dream. Somehow, you make the “error” described by the paper of Goldin and Wegner (mentioned by Philip Thrift). You consider only the extensional CT, not the intensional CT which flows from the intensional CT. The extensional CT is concerned with computable functions. The intensional CT is concerned with emulable process. They are probably equivalent, except that for a process, the computation involved can not stop. > I objected to the above "computations that are reversible require no energy". > This is either a statement about the abstract mathematical computation, in > which case it is trivial, or it is a statement about physically realized > computations in which case it is false because physically reversible > computations have no direction. This lead to Non-Mechanism, and to te fact that if a (quantum, perhaps) computer emulate a dream, there is no consciousness associated with it. Malcom argues that a dream memory is created at the awakening moment. With such a theory, the entire universe cannot “run consciousness”, and ur consciousness is created at the last moment when the universe output something, which is already very weird. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
