On 12/12/2018 3:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 11 Dec 2018, at 20:20, Brent Meeker <meeke...@verizon.net
<mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 11:06 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 12:53 PM Philip Thrift
<cloudver...@gmail.com <mailto:cloudver...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 12:45:13 PM UTC-6, Jason wrote:
On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 11:29 AM Brent Meeker
<meek...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 12/11/2018 12:31 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Monday, December 10, 2018 at 7:05:17 PM UTC-6, Jason
wrote:
No one is refuting the existence of matter, only
the idea that matter is primary. That is, that
matter is not derivative from something more
fundamental.
Jason
I can understand an (immaterial) computationalism (e.g.
*The universal numbers. From Biology to Physics.*
Marchal B [
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26140993 ]) as
providing a purely informational basis for (thinking
of) matter and consciousness, but then why would
*actual matter* need to come into existence at all?
Actual matter itself would seem to be superfluous.
If actual matter is not needed for experientiality
(consciousness), and actual matter does no exist at
all, then we live in a type of simulation of pure
numericality. There would be no reason for actual
matter to come into existence.
If it feels like matter and it looks like matter and
obeys the equations of matter how is it not "actual"
matter? Bruno's idea is that consciousness of matter
and it's effects are all we can know about matter. So
if the "simulation" that is simulating us, also
simulates those conscious thoughts about matter then
that's a "actual" as anything gets. Remember Bruno is a
theologian so all this "simulation" is in the mind of
God=arithmetic; and arithmetic/God is the ur-stuff.
It's not just Bruno who reached this conclusion. from Markus
Muller's paper:
In particular, her observations do not fundamentally
supervene on this “physical universe”; it is merely a
useful tool to predict her future observations.
Nonetheless, this universe will seem perfectly real to
her, since its state is strongly correlated with her
experiences. If the measure µ that is computed within
her computational universe assigns probability close to
one to the experience of hitting her head against a
brick, then the corresponding experience of pain will
probably render all abstract insights into the
non-fundamental nature of that brick irrelevant.
Jason
What is the computer that running "her computational universe"?
The very same that powers the equations that bring life to our
universe as you see it evolve.
What is its power supply?
Power is only required to erase information, and that is only a
concept of the physical laws of this universe. Even the laws of our
universe permit the creation of computers which require no power to run.
See the bit about reversible computing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landauer%27s_principle (computations
that are reversible require no energy).
And they produce no results since they run both ways. They are not
even computations in the CT sense.
They are computations in the CT sense.
CT computations halt. A program that can just wander back an forth at
random doesn't halt.
All computations can be done reversibly.
OK. Here's my result, 1029394857. What two numbers did I add to
compute it?
Read and write needs some energy, but is not part of the computation,
A quantum computation stops when you read its output. A CT computation
must halt to provide and output...otherwise you can't recognize an
output (and there would be no Halting Problem).
Brent
unless you run the couple “you + the computation concerned”. If not QM
would not be Turing universal, which it is.
Bruno
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