On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:30 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they >>>>>>>> all exist, then how is this different from the block-time view (which >>>>>>>> says >>>>>>>> only that all points in time exist and are real)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They differ in exactly the same was a 10^80 protons differs from one >>>>>>> proton. The block-time view claims that all moments exist timelessly and >>>>>>> simultaneously. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I think your addition of the word "simultaneously" is invalid and >>>>>> incorrect. It is enough to say timelessly. Simultaneously is an >>>>>> observer's >>>>>> reference-frame dependent phenomenon. It has no objective meaning. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The trouble is that the very concept of "timeless" involves some >>>>> "super time" dimension. The only possible interpretation is that the >>>>> unchanging block endures for ever in some other temporal dimension. Any >>>>> slice of that temporal dimension across the block is a moment of >>>>> simultaneity. The very notion of "timeless" is a temporal concept. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> As I see block time, there is no need to add any super time dimension. >>>> It is only to say other points in time are real, just as other points in >>>> space are real. And that "here" is as much a property of me as is "now". >>>> That is, there is spacetime (that's it). I happen to be in one point in >>>> space time (here and now), but other people and events are in other theres >>>> and thens. >>>> >>> >>> I don't think you understand my objection to the very notion of >>> "timeless" in connection with the universe. The universe is not timeless, >>> and arbitrary imaginary constructions involving the universe always are >>> built with a concept of time. You have no evidence that other points in >>> time are "real", whatever that might mean. It is just a notion, without any >>> basis. >>> >> >> Do you believe other locations in space exist? >> > > They exist, but there is no sense in which they are simultaneous with my > existence. > There are certain senses in which you could, but I mostly agree (as they are not objective). > They exist because events at other locations in my past light cone can > affect me, and I can affect events at other locations in my future light > cone. > Okay, no problem with this. > > Do you believe other locations in time exist? >> > > I believe that I have a past, and will have a future, but I do not believe > that these exist in my present. Such an idea is clearly a linguistic > confusion. > I agree. > > (I answer yes to both questions, that is all I mean by block time -- that >> there is no privileged part of space time blessed with the property of >> existence). >> > > The present is all that you can know exists. All else is idle speculation. > But you just said there is no such thing as the present (since there is no objective notion of simultaneity) > Of course, you can construct imaginary theories in which unicorns, > fairies, and Hogwarts Castle exist, but you would not have any evidence for > any of these. > > You just said you have evidence for the existence of objects in your past light cone. Why presume that they would disappear from existence? What is the motivation/justification for such an idea? Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
