On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:49 AM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 3:30 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 2:38 AM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 5:05 AM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:21 PM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 19, 2018 at 5:19 PM Bruce Kellett <bhkellet...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you include all events as as present moments, and say that they >>>>>>>> all exist, then how is this different from the block-time view (which >>>>>>>> says >>>>>>>> only that all points in time exist and are real)? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> They differ in exactly the same was a 10^80 protons differs from one >>>>>>> proton. The block-time view claims that all moments exist timelessly and >>>>>>> simultaneously. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I think your addition of the word "simultaneously" is invalid and >>>>>> incorrect. It is enough to say timelessly. Simultaneously is an >>>>>> observer's >>>>>> reference-frame dependent phenomenon. It has no objective meaning. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The trouble is that the very concept of "timeless" involves some >>>>> "super time" dimension. The only possible interpretation is that the >>>>> unchanging block endures for ever in some other temporal dimension. Any >>>>> slice of that temporal dimension across the block is a moment of >>>>> simultaneity. The very notion of "timeless" is a temporal concept. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> As I see block time, there is no need to add any super time dimension. >>>> It is only to say other points in time are real, just as other points in >>>> space are real. And that "here" is as much a property of me as is "now". >>>> That is, there is spacetime (that's it). I happen to be in one point in >>>> space time (here and now), but other people and events are in other theres >>>> and thens. >>>> >>> >>> I don't think you understand my objection to the very notion of >>> "timeless" in connection with the universe. The universe is not timeless, >>> and arbitrary imaginary constructions involving the universe always are >>> built with a concept of time. You have no evidence that other points in >>> time are "real", whatever that might mean. It is just a notion, without any >>> basis. >>> >> >> Do you believe other locations in space exist? >> > > They exist, but there is no sense in which they are simultaneous with my > existence. > There are certain senses in which you could, but I mostly agree (as they are not objective). > They exist because events at other locations in my past light cone can > affect me, and I can affect events at other locations in my future light > cone. > Okay, no problem with this. > > Do you believe other locations in time exist? >> > > I believe that I have a past, and will have a future, but I do not believe > that these exist in my present. Such an idea is clearly a linguistic > confusion. > I agree. > > (I answer yes to both questions, that is all I mean by block time -- that >> there is no privileged part of space time blessed with the property of >> existence). >> > > The present is all that you can know exists. All else is idle speculation. > But you just said there is no such thing as the present (since there is no objective notion of simultaneity) > Of course, you can construct imaginary theories in which unicorns, > fairies, and Hogwarts Castle exist, but you would not have any evidence for > any of these. > > You just said you have evidence for the existence of objects in your past light cone. Why presume that they would disappear from existence? What is the motivation/justification for such an idea? Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
