The Kantian view is that *reality* is actually really real. It is there whether there are any of us (or anyone else) thinking beings around to agree about or argue about anything.
What people agree (or disagree) about, "intersubjective" or otherwise (and it is questionable these days in 2019 what agreement there really is) are *theories of reality*. And theories of reality are just that. BTW: Today is Kant's birthday [b. 22 April 1724 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant ]. - pt On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 3:41:44 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > Reality is what we can reach intersubjective agreement on. There is a > consistency from person to person in perceptions, so that becomes the basis > for hypothesizing there is person and mind independent reality, a common > world. Conscious thought, like percpetions, are epistemologically > fundamental. Whether they are ontologically fundamental depends on what > theory proves always accurate in prediction and broad in scope. > Hypothesizing other consciousnesses is not different in principle from > hyposthesizing tables and quarks. > > Brent > > On 4/22/2019 12:38 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: > > Of course we have a choice. The primacy of consciousness may entail > nothing more than an epistemological barrier - we may never be able to > experience reality directly, or know its true form, but that doesn't force > us to deny the possibility of an objective reality. > > If nothing else it forces us to remain agnostic. We can be sure of the > primacy of consciousness - on this we agree - but we cannot be sure about > anything of the reality that pushes back on our consciousness. Your > certainty on this matter is a red flag for me. > > On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:21 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> wrote: > >> We have no choice in building such an ontology given the fact that we can >> never know anything outside consciousness. Sure, if we want just >> technology, then all kinds of science can do it. But if we want truth, we >> cannot search it outside consciousness. >> -- >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
