On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 4:08:12 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > > On 4/22/2019 1:56 PM, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > The Kantian view is that *reality* is actually really real. It is there > whether there are any of us (or anyone else) thinking beings around to > agree about or argue about anything. > > > Really? > > > What people agree (or disagree) about, "intersubjective" or otherwise (and > it is questionable these days in 2019 what agreement there really is) are > *theories > of reality*. > > > Most theories (and all the useful ones) are not theories of reality, they > are theories of a part of reality, i.e. a domain in which the theory makes > accurate and reliable predictions. > > Brent > “All human progress has been made by studying the shadows on the cave > wall.” > --- Sean Carroll >
Sean is a Platonist. Just like Vic said. - pt > > > And theories of reality are just that. > > BTW: Today is Kant's birthday [b. 22 April 1724 - > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant ]. > > - pt > > > On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 3:41:44 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> Reality is what we can reach intersubjective agreement on. There is a >> consistency from person to person in perceptions, so that becomes the basis >> for hypothesizing there is person and mind independent reality, a common >> world. Conscious thought, like percpetions, are epistemologically >> fundamental. Whether they are ontologically fundamental depends on what >> theory proves always accurate in prediction and broad in scope. >> Hypothesizing other consciousnesses is not different in principle from >> hyposthesizing tables and quarks. >> >> Brent >> >> On 4/22/2019 12:38 PM, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> Of course we have a choice. The primacy of consciousness may entail >> nothing more than an epistemological barrier - we may never be able to >> experience reality directly, or know its true form, but that doesn't force >> us to deny the possibility of an objective reality. >> >> If nothing else it forces us to remain agnostic. We can be sure of the >> primacy of consciousness - on this we agree - but we cannot be sure about >> anything of the reality that pushes back on our consciousness. Your >> certainty on this matter is a red flag for me. >> >> On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:21 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> We have no choice in building such an ontology given the fact that we >>> can never know anything outside consciousness. Sure, if we want just >>> technology, then all kinds of science can do it. But if we want truth, we >>> cannot search it outside consciousness. >>> -- >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
