On 4/22/2019 1:56 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
The Kantian view is that *reality* is actually really real. It is
there whether there are any of us (or anyone else) thinking beings
around to agree about or argue about anything.
Really?
What people agree (or disagree) about, "intersubjective" or otherwise
(and it is questionable these days in 2019 what agreement there really
is) are *theories of reality*.
Most theories (and all the useful ones) are not theories of reality,
they are theories of a part of reality, i.e. a domain in which the
theory makes accurate and reliable predictions.
Brent
“All human progress has been made by studying the shadows on the cave wall.”
--- Sean Carroll
And theories of reality are just that.
BTW: Today is Kant's birthday [b. 22 April 1724 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immanuel_Kant ].
- pt
On Monday, April 22, 2019 at 3:41:44 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
Reality is what we can reach intersubjective agreement on. There
is a consistency from person to person in perceptions, so that
becomes the basis for hypothesizing there is person and mind
independent reality, a common world. Conscious thought, like
percpetions, are epistemologically fundamental. Whether they are
ontologically fundamental depends on what theory proves always
accurate in prediction and broad in scope. Hypothesizing other
consciousnesses is not different in principle from hyposthesizing
tables and quarks.
Brent
On 4/22/2019 12:38 PM, Terren Suydam wrote:
Of course we have a choice. The primacy of consciousness may
entail nothing more than an epistemological barrier - we may
never be able to experience reality directly, or know its true
form, but that doesn't force us to deny the possibility of an
objective reality.
If nothing else it forces us to remain agnostic. We can be sure
of the primacy of consciousness - on this we agree - but we
cannot be sure about anything of the reality that pushes back on
our consciousness. Your certainty on this matter is a red flag
for me.
On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 2:21 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything
List <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote:
We have no choice in building such an ontology given the fact
that we can never know anything outside consciousness. Sure,
if we want just technology, then all kinds of science can do
it. But if we want truth, we cannot search it outside
consciousness.
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