> On 29 May 2019, at 20:29, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 5/29/2019 3:26 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 28 May 2019, at 21:59, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/28/2019 12:38 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> You need to use the word “god” in the sense of the neoplatonist, which >>>> might not believe in the God “matter”. >>>> >>>> Neoplatonist are usually “atheist” with respect to physicalism, or with >>>> respect to the idea that the physical reality is at the origin of the >>>> other (psychological) realities. >>>> >>>> I remind you that we have define “God” by whatever is responsible for our >>>> conscious experience. The atheist and post-529 christians are believer in >>>> the “second God of Aristotle” i.e. a primitively material universe, or a >>>> primitively physical universe. >>> I'm reminded of a quip by Bertrand Russell: >>> >>> “People are more unwilling to give up the word ‘God’ than to give up the >>> idea for which the word has hitherto stood” >> Yes, but the first meaning in God in the serious literature > > That is the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. It is imposing your view that > literature is not "serious" unless it comports with your view..
Come on Brent, here it is a remind that there has been one millenium of serious theology, by which I mean “not using any argument per authority, and that such kind of endeavour has been forbidden (to say the least) once theology has become “the opium of the people”, and the so called pagan theologian have been persecuted and will escape in the Middle-Age, and be at the origin of "the golden age of Islam” until 1248, when it will again be forbidden, and the neoplatonist will escape again in Europa, where it will lead to the Renaissance (the partial Renaissance, as the natural philosophies came back to the academy, but not theology which remained until now in the hand of the argument per authority. Plato is my view, not Aristotle, so seriousness has nothing to do with my view, which remained a minority for most of the time. But even when and where Aristotle “won”, the scientific attitude was back. > .even though your view is an esoteric one not shared by the billions of > people who pray and worship the God of their ancestors. Only a minority of Platonist ever defended the Theurgy (with possible rites). Actually I know only Porphyry to have been inspired by the Christians on this (despite he is also the one writing a treatise “Against the Christians” which unfortunately has been lost. Why, because contrary to what you say, there is no esoterisme in neoplatonism, except in its secret version when they were too much persecuted. > You propose to steal their work "God" because...why?, you want to borrow the > awe and authority wielded by a priesthood? Of course not, and you know that. The reason is Plato’s definition of God: the Ultimate Fundamental Reality that we search, with the insight that it is above us, transcendental, a bit like Cantor universe of set in ZF or NBG. It is the same use as the God of the philosopher, like in Spinoza, but I have an entire book entitled “The God of the Philosophers” which mention all the notion of God (that very word) in the writing of laïc. > And don't tell me you are using it in the original meaning. God was given a > meaning many thousands of years before Plato OK. But I use the original sense of those who have study theology with the scientific attitude, with the level of rigour permitted by their time, of course. Then I have explained how both mathematics and physics, as systematic science is born there, and how and why in the 18th and 19th century, such kind of theology came back for a short period and led to Mathematical Logic. Only atheists insist to use “God” in the sense of the Christian (and only Aristotelian among them, where indeed materialism has been *the* dogma). You confirm, like many, that the atheists "are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chain which they have thrown off after hard struggle”, to quote Einstein. > and it meant a supernatural human-like agent: Agdistis or Angdistis, Ah Puch, > Ahura Mazda, Alberich, Allah, Amaterasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, > Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepius, Athena, Athirat, > Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacchus, Balder, Bast, Bellona, Bergelmir, > Bes, Bixia Yuanjin, Bragi, Brahma, Brent, Brigit,...Si-Wang-Mu, Sin, Sirona, > Sol, Surya, Susanoh, Tawaret, Tefnut, Tezcatlipoca, Thanatos, Thor, Thoth, > Tiamat, Tianhou, Tlaloc, Tonatiuh, Toyo-Uke-Bime, Tyche, Tyr, Utu, Uzume, > Vediovis, Venus, Vesta, Vishnu, Volturnus, Vulcan, Xipe, Xi Wang-mu, > Xochipilli, Xochiquetzal, Yam, Yarikh, YHWH, Ymir, Yu-huang, Yum Kimil or > Zeus? I will ask you to use the word “Earth” for a Flat object on which the human stand up. You know, for many years I have been mocked because I dare to use the words “consciousness”, “mind”, etc. To attack a theorem in applied mathematics to the mind-body problem with vocabularies consideration is just not valid. The fact that atheists are the only one doing that shows how much they have not evolved, and that they are more radical in Chirstianity than most intellectual Christians. Bruno > > Brent > >> was “whatever” is at the origin of Reality. In this list we have certainly >> given up the idea that we have the answer, or even that if such answer >> exists, it can be communicate with certainty. >> >> Those who keep the idea and the term are those who defends the dogma, even >> when it is just to criticise it. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >>> Brent >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/4101cc1d-0a3f-33ab-912d-bbf6e3f2f2c1%40verizon.net. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c446f177-5d0f-dc57-bcd6-a9f526ca6815%40verizon.net. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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