On Monday, June 17, 2019 at 2:54:28 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 16 Jun 2019, at 13:46, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > On Sunday, June 16, 2019 at 6:25:57 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 15 Jun 2019, at 20:57, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> Panpsychism is just the position adopted by those still afraid to leave >> materialism behind and go to idealism. >> >> >> I agree. And it eliminates or trivialises the psychism by identifying it >> with everything. It is materialism, structured in a way to prevent *any* >> theory of mind. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> > But I adhere to *panpsychic materialism*. > > So there. :) > > > If you assume a material reality at the start, you need to abandon the > mechanist hypothesis in cognitive science. Your brain and body need a non > computational solution of some differential equation, so that your > “substitution level” is made infinitely low. But then, you need to abandon > the theory of evolution by Darwin, molecular genetics, and this leads to a > form of super determinism, where you and your brain exists only due to > infinitely precise initial conditions. This eliminates the possibility of > using the Mechanist theory of consciousness, to allow a necessity of some > ontological commitment. That looks like making things more complicated, > without evidence, just to cherish a conception of reality that you like, > and which speculates on evidences not yet obtained. It is logically > coherent (unlike those who want both primary matter and Mechanism), but > seems *very* speculative to me. > > Bruno > > > As I wrote elsewhere:
The problem with "all is arithmetic/numbers" and "all is consciousness/qualia" is that while we know we have a "self" (our self-experience of consciousness) and may even believe in (the fiction of) mathematics, we are in a world where we see the science news* of materials science -- where some scientists/technologists find some really frickingly weird property of some exotic material. So there is all this weird stuff we find out about new materials, to say nothing of stuff we don't know about, like dark matter. (As Auden said, "*Matter is much / Odder than we thought."*) If there isn't some sort of "independent" material world (which we are embedded in though), then where does these surprising material properties discovered by materials scientists come from? Do we just dream them up as we dream up matter itself, or they come out of Peano arithmetic? * https://news.google.com/search?q=materials%20science Since we don't know all the properties of matter (it could have both extrinsic arithmetical and intrinsic qualial properties), one can't conclude anything about what follows from assuming its "primary" existence. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8c868209-860c-41b5-8a2f-8d2fb54aea5d%40googlegroups.com.
