> On 18 Dec 2019, at 20:57, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 10:44 AM Bruno Marchal <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > >> the very definition of "The Helsinki Man" is the man who is experiencing > Helsinki right now today. > > > That definition has never been adopted by anyone, > > You use it in the very post I'm responding to! See the next line!: > > > he can predict, when still in Helsinki (as always since day one), that he > > will [...] > > John Clark doesn't think there is any way Bruno Marchal can ever be weaned > off of personal pronouns. Is Mr.He the same Mr.He that is "still in Helsinki”?
Of course. That follows directly from the fact that Mr He keeps his identity intact in both W and M. Both are the same guy than the one who was in Helsinki. That is the reason why in Helsinki he cannot predict which version he will feel to be. The identity is defined by the memory of his past, and that is why in self-duplication he (the guy we all know very well) is unable, at the time where he is still in Helsinki, what experience to be expected, except that it is the experience of seeing W, or M and not both; > If it is then today Mr.He is experiencing nothing at all because today nobody > is "still in Helsinki”. It is enough that he remember having been the guy in Helsinki. Unless you think that the guy in Helsinki (the one referred by “he”) dies in the process, but, as said many times, this makes Mechanism wrong, and that makes the point. > But if Mr.He is somebody who remembers being in Helsinki yesterday then today > 2 people in 2 different cities fit that description. Exactly. > So yesterday it would be logical to say Mr.He will either experience zero > cities An idea abandoned since before this list begun. > or two cities depending on who the hell Mr.He is. Of course here you make again the confusion between 3p and 1p. There is simply no 1p experience of being in two cities, and I recall you that the question asked concerns the future 1p experience. > > And upon this ridiculous mismash you have built your entire philosophy. > > > the “I” pronoun, lost all its ambiguity > > If that were true Bruno could prove it by simply replacing the personal > pronoun "I" with its referent, but John Clark knows that will never happen > because then the gaping logical holes in the argument would stand out like a > sore thumb. I have done this many times. > > > you assume telepathy. > > And that bit of silliness is my cue to say goodnight. Try perhaps to answer this question. You are read and cut in Helsinki again, but you are reconstituted in Moscow well before being reconstituted in Washington. In that case, Nozick’s closer continuer theory predicts that the original guy survives in Moscow, and that the guy in Washington is some other (new) guy. Do you agree with this? My point here is that the 1p cannot be aware ofbthe delay of reconstitution, ans so that mechanism entails that whatever we quantify the indeterminacy in Helsinki, it does not change when such delay are introduced. You did have shown many times, including recently that you do get the point (you want just change the vocabulary from 1p indeterminacy to 1p-ambiguity). My question is “does the delay resolves the ambiguity, as Nozick would say, or not, as a mechanist has to accept. Bruno > > John K Clark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0P-XC8OBCdbKB9Z9E_j7Larj9rrxk%3DanCVPn%3D55RKuyA%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0P-XC8OBCdbKB9Z9E_j7Larj9rrxk%3DanCVPn%3D55RKuyA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DA9DF8C2-C469-4869-8877-91D1520F368B%40ulb.ac.be.
