On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:30:19 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:02:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:17:58 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:19 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Last sentence above: I mean that if it had a "start" with >>>>>>>>> infinite spatial extent, that would seem to mean it did NOT have an >>>>>>>>> infinite spatial extent just prior to the start. For me this seems >>>>>>>>> like a >>>>>>>>> singularity, an infinite physical process which occurs in zero time. >>>>>>>>> If I >>>>>>>>> were betting, I'd bet on a finite closed universe for any universe >>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>> "starts", not for the Multiverse. AG* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can bet any way you want. I doubt that the universe gives a >>>>>>>> shit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Bruce >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *I'd go further and ask one question: it obviously doesn't. Is this >>>>>>> your idea of value-added? What I think it displays is your firmly held >>>>>>> belief that it's flat, and anger that someone might think otherwise. >>>>>>> Not >>>>>>> your finest hour. AG * >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Not anger -- just frustration at your intransigence. I don't care >>>>>> what you think, so why should I be angry? >>>>>> >>>>>> Bruce >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> *Correction in CAPS below: * >>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Annoyance is only slightly removed from anger. Maybe you're being >>>>> intransigent. As Brent pointed out, many origin theories have a >>>>> "beginning" >>>>> or "start", so before that our universe CAME INTO BEING, IT didn't exist >>>>> (not to be confused with the Multiverse, WHICH COULD BE ANYTHING, FLAT, >>>>> ETERNAL, WHO KNOWS?). But then, magically perhaps, it comes into >>>>> instantaneous existence having an infinite spatial extent since it's >>>>> alleged to be flat. For a genius like you, there's nothing to be >>>>> explained >>>>> here. AG * >>>>> >>>> >>> *If you had more intellectual integrity, a characteristic lacking in >>> many physicists/hacks today, instead of mockery you might posit a universe >>> without a beginning. AG * >>> >> >> >> >> The problem stems from physicists, for the most part, completely mislead >> people about the relationship between the mathematical language of theories >> of physics and cosmology and physical reality (which we record via lab >> instruments and telescopes into collections of data). >> >> This is explained in Victor Stenger's >> >> >> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/ >> >> @philipthrift >> > > *TY. I'll read it. The likely solution to the problem I've raised is that > only an un-created universe, one which never began but always existed (in > some form), can be flat. Unfortunately when one argues too persistently, > the response is petulance. AG* >
*The truth is, for all his brilliance, Bruce is an asshole. So he makes his mocking comments, that he doesn't care what I think, as if that's the issue. What shit! What I am established is that flatness is incompatible with a universe which had a beginning. So if it's flat, it never had a beginning; or else it did, and is closed, hyper-spherical in shape. AG* > >> >> >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6f7b8392-51fd-4f5b-b304-3a726ae2a083%40googlegroups.com.
