Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 14:10, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a écrit :
> > > On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 6:04:38 AM UTC-7, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le lun. 20 janv. 2020 à 13:49, Alan Grayson <[email protected]> a >> écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:30:19 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 3:02:51 AM UTC-7, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 2:31:42 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:17:58 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 1:12:45 AM UTC-7, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 12:57:55 AM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 5:59 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, January 19, 2020 at 10:50:46 PM UTC-7, Bruce wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 20, 2020 at 4:19 PM Alan Grayson < >>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Last sentence above: I mean that if it had a "start" with >>>>>>>>>>>> infinite spatial extent, that would seem to mean it did NOT have an >>>>>>>>>>>> infinite spatial extent just prior to the start. For me this seems >>>>>>>>>>>> like a >>>>>>>>>>>> singularity, an infinite physical process which occurs in zero >>>>>>>>>>>> time. If I >>>>>>>>>>>> were betting, I'd bet on a finite closed universe for any universe >>>>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>>>> "starts", not for the Multiverse. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can bet any way you want. I doubt that the universe gives a >>>>>>>>>>> shit. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Bruce >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *I'd go further and ask one question: it obviously doesn't. Is >>>>>>>>>> this your idea of value-added? What I think it displays is your >>>>>>>>>> firmly held >>>>>>>>>> belief that it's flat, and anger that someone might think otherwise. >>>>>>>>>> Not >>>>>>>>>> your finest hour. AG * >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Not anger -- just frustration at your intransigence. I don't care >>>>>>>>> what you think, so why should I be angry? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Bruce >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Correction in CAPS below: * >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Annoyance is only slightly removed from anger. Maybe you're being >>>>>>>> intransigent. As Brent pointed out, many origin theories have a >>>>>>>> "beginning" >>>>>>>> or "start", so before that our universe CAME INTO BEING, IT didn't >>>>>>>> exist >>>>>>>> (not to be confused with the Multiverse, WHICH COULD BE ANYTHING, FLAT, >>>>>>>> ETERNAL, WHO KNOWS?). But then, magically perhaps, it comes into >>>>>>>> instantaneous existence having an infinite spatial extent since it's >>>>>>>> alleged to be flat. For a genius like you, there's nothing to be >>>>>>>> explained >>>>>>>> here. AG * >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> *If you had more intellectual integrity, a characteristic lacking in >>>>>> many physicists/hacks today, instead of mockery you might posit a >>>>>> universe >>>>>> without a beginning. AG * >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The problem stems from physicists, for the most part, completely >>>>> mislead people about the relationship between the mathematical language of >>>>> theories of physics and cosmology and physical reality (which we record >>>>> via >>>>> lab instruments and telescopes into collections of data). >>>>> >>>>> This is explained in Victor Stenger's >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/physicists-are-philosophers-too/ >>>>> >>>>> @philipthrift >>>>> >>>> >>>> *TY. I'll read it. The likely solution to the problem I've raised is >>>> that only an un-created universe, one which never began but always existed >>>> (in some form), can be flat. Unfortunately when one argues too >>>> persistently, the response is petulance. AG* >>>> >>> >>> *The truth is, for all his brilliance, Bruce is an asshole. So he makes >>> his mocking comments, that he doesn't care what I think, as if that's the >>> issue. What shit! What I am established is that flatness is incompatible >>> with a universe which had a beginning. So if it's flat, it never had a >>> beginning; or else it did, and is closed, hyper-spherical in shape. AG* >>> >> >> What prevent it to be infinite since the start ? As I said, it's space >> that expand, so going back in time shows *our obsvervable* universe has >> been small... that doesn't preclude it (our observable part) to be from a >> vastly bigger thing, even an infinite thing, we would still only see our >> small part. >> >> Quentin >> > > I explained it several times. There's a singularity implied it it had a > start AND was infinite. If it's infinite, it never had a beginning or > start. AG > What singularity ? if being infinite is a singularity, then you're simply saying nothing is infinite, start or no start. > >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6f7b8392-51fd-4f5b-b304-3a726ae2a083%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6f7b8392-51fd-4f5b-b304-3a726ae2a083%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f241d6d6-34e9-41d0-9268-f07bb7f03009%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f241d6d6-34e9-41d0-9268-f07bb7f03009%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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