> On 1 Mar 2020, at 15:03, PGC <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Sunday, March 1, 2020 at 2:44:05 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 29 Feb 2020, at 13:43, PGC <[email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, February 29, 2020 at 10:04:16 AM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 29 Feb 2020, at 03:45, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List >>> <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2/28/2020 5:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 28 Feb 2020, at 13:05, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Only Platonists jump to a belief that there is a ghostly world of >>>>> abstract entities called "numbers" that exists outside of >>>>> matter (whether that matter is your brain or your computer). >>>> >>>> We don’t need this either. We need only to believe that 2+3 = 5, or that >>>> phi_i(j) converges or not converges. The philosophy and metaphysics come >>>> after. >>>> If not, it is like studying the working of my brain to convince myself >>>> that I understand correctly that 2+2=4. That does not work, because my >>>> brain study is based on my belief that 2+2=4. >>>> You could aswel say that Einstein’s theory is circular, because you want >>>> to explain 2+2=4 with Matter, but Einstein’s theory use the numbers, and >>>> assumes they do what they need to give sense to, say, E= mc^2. >>>> >>>> At some point, people have to put *all* the hypothesis on the table, so >>>> that it is clear what is assumed, and what is derived. >>> >>> That doesn't really help because it leaves open the relation between what >>> is assumed to be true and what is actually. That's why reasoning that is >>> not grounded in ostensive definitions and empirically tested is just a game. >> >> Accepting the Aristotelian credo, but I have never found one empirical or >> theoretical evidence for it, >> >> Then don't accept food, water, or any other material substance as primary. > > Indeed. > > > >> Use abstractions or images in your mind. Jesus also gave up all material >> possessions to reflect his faith in mechanism. The Christian thing was just >> advertising. >> >> and then with Mechanism we know, or should know, that it does not make >> sense. Physicalism + mechanism gives magical power to “matter” by enabling >> it to prevent a Turing machine, 100% similar to you at the relevant >> description level, to be conscious. This raise the question if some holy >> water is not also needed, or the will of some supernatural creature … >> >> Ostensive definition works very well, but not in computationalist >> metaphysics, >> >> The "metaphysics" where everybody states "reality is the thing we search" >> but actually is certain of what is real and what isn't + has the authority >> to impose it, just because the boss is always right. Yeah, we all know that >> "metaphysics". PGC > > The whole point of doing “metaphysics” with the scientific attitude is in > never claiming truth, and always be open for refutation. A metaphysician or > theologian keeping this attitude cannot be certain of what is real. > > Then you are neither a practitioner of metaphysics with a scientific > attitude, nor a theologian as you posts on Holmes, Tintin etc. in this thread > quite openly reveal an attitude that apparently can separate truth from > fiction without problems. Applying logic to fiction in making statements > regarding reality is evidence that you regularly confuse truth with personal > fictions. PGC
I assume the mechanist hypothesis, and derive from it that it can be tested, and indeed that quantum mechanics without collapse provides evidence for it. I do claim any truth, not even that x + 0 = x (I just hope people interested can accept this). I submit a reasoning for people interested in the subject. You might confuse truth and validity, perhaps. (Just trying to understand what you say). Bruno > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7ddefdf9-6331-4284-b412-10cbe7ae57de%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/7ddefdf9-6331-4284-b412-10cbe7ae57de%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/C544D70A-3498-486B-9DAF-48A6E3CC4A24%40ulb.ac.be.
