> On 29 Feb 2020, at 03:45, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 2/28/2020 5:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 28 Feb 2020, at 13:05, Philip Thrift <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Only Platonists jump to a belief that there is a ghostly world of abstract >>> entities called "numbers" that exists outside of matter (whether that >>> matter is your brain or your computer). >> >> We don’t need this either. We need only to believe that 2+3 = 5, or that >> phi_i(j) converges or not converges. The philosophy and metaphysics come >> after. >> If not, it is like studying the working of my brain to convince myself that >> I understand correctly that 2+2=4. That does not work, because my brain >> study is based on my belief that 2+2=4. >> You could aswel say that Einstein’s theory is circular, because you want to >> explain 2+2=4 with Matter, but Einstein’s theory use the numbers, and >> assumes they do what they need to give sense to, say, E= mc^2. >> >> At some point, people have to put *all* the hypothesis on the table, so that >> it is clear what is assumed, and what is derived. > > That doesn't really help because it leaves open the relation between what is > assumed to be true and what is actually. That's why reasoning that is not > grounded in ostensive definitions and empirically tested is just a game.
Accepting the Aristotelian credo, but I have never found one empirical or theoretical evidence for it, and then with Mechanism we know, or should know, that it does not make sense. Physicalism + mechanism gives magical power to “matter” by enabling it to prevent a Turing machine, 100% similar to you at the relevant description level, to be conscious. This raise the question if some holy water is not also needed, or the will of some supernatural creature … Ostensive definition works very well, but not in computationalist metaphysics, as ostension happens in dreams, and thus in arithmetic. Physics is the science of measuring the relative plausibility of computations/dreams, and computer science, predicts quickly the many worlds, and the (propositional) quantum formalism, where materialism must still eliminate or dismiss consciousness and the mind-body problem. Bruno > > Brent > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/72d30f9e-20ec-010c-f5d4-d9c0f45bfcb2%40verizon.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/72d30f9e-20ec-010c-f5d4-d9c0f45bfcb2%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/D8B0E596-DF74-433B-AB90-AAE6621CCD1C%40ulb.ac.be.
