Right now, it's time to remain easy, with an understanding that what occurred 
in Europe during Merkel's reign plus the US withdrawal in Afghanistan may have 
led to a change in perceptions in Moscow, and in Beijing. This is wholly 
Putin's war now, and from what I just read is not concerned with the 
re-establishment of the Soviet Union (as I had thought) but the 
re-establishment of the Russian Empire. We;ll see if this seems true, and what 
needs to be done to get us all into 'survival mode.'


-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <[email protected]>
To: Everything List <[email protected]>
Sent: Sun, Feb 27, 2022 7:34 am
Subject: Re: Ukraine

If American or NATO forces start shooting with Russian military it would 
project us into a new world. The whole situation could easily escalate into a 
nuclear conflict. The problem is that given the rapid technology involved there 
would be a compulsion to act swiftly and pre-emptively.
LC

On Saturday, February 26, 2022 at 5:13:41 PM UTC-6 Bruce wrote:

On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 10:04 AM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:

  It's not a question of sympathy, but of utility.


What would happen if NATO launched an all-out cruise missile assault on Moscow 
and Petersburg? Not nuclear, purely conventional. No "boots on the ground", but 
some serious rethinking needed on Russia's part. Just as the retaliatory 
British bombing of Berlin in WW2 caused Hitler to loose his cool and gave 
Britain an advantage. Of course, Putin might respond with a nuclear assault, 
but that would certainly render his empire plans futile. It would be a gamble, 
but I think the odds would be in favour of making Putin pause rather than 
escalating further.
Bruce
 
 Brent
 
 On 2/26/2022 2:58 PM, John Clark wrote:
  
   On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 5:41 PM Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote:
    
  
  > I'm fine with seizing the money of Putin and his oligarch buddies.  I'm 
less sanguine about just impoverishing the Russian people.  
 
  When one country decides to make war on it's neighbor misery is the 
inevitable result, certainly the people of Ukraine are feeling it and I'm 
certain the people of Russia will too. Call me a monster if you want but at 
this moment I feel far less sympathy for the invading country than the country 
being invaded.


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