On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM Brent Meeker <meekerbr...@gmail.com> wrote:
*>>> So you're denying that deterministic mechanics are time reversible and >> so could be projected back to specific state?* >> > > >> >> Brent you are being disingenuous, I don't believe any disinterested >> party could read what I wrote and make that conclusion. > > * > Well then our current state does pick out a specific initial state AND > so does every other deterministic theory given our state. Right? * > Wrong. If the universe is deterministic then obviously the state it's in now came from a specific initial condition 13.8 billion years ago, *HOWEVER* no cosmological theory except for superdeterminism claims to be able to specify *EXACTLY* what that ancient specific initial condition was by examining present day conditions. And you may ask how *EXACTLY* does it do this? It does this by *ASSUMING* that the many world's idea must be wrong and then noting that out of the astronomical^2 number of states the universe could've started out in it must've started out in that* ONE* because that is the only *ONE *that is consistent with the assumption that many worlds is wrong. If that is not a violation of Occam's razor what the hell is? By contrast the only assumption that the many worlds idea makes is that Schrodinger's equation means what it says. *> I suppose it could be deterministic but not reversible.* Superdeterministic advocates not only claim the universe is deterministic *AND* reversible they claim to know *EXACTLY* what the initial state of the universe was 13.8 billion years ago, it was in the *ONE* and *ONLY* state in which their theory could work. That is not science, that is madness. And Brent, I have made this same point using different words many times and you have never directly refuted any of it, and I simply don't believe you don't understand what I'm saying, that's why I stand by my remark that you are being disingenuous. I like to debate too but sometimes I have to admit the other guy made a good point. John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> gqd > > iki > > > >> >> No other cosmological theory needs the universe to start out in one and >> only one very specific state for the idea to work, nearly any state would >> do. Superdeterminism is unique, no other deterministic theory, or theory of >> any sort, requires that the universe began in one and only one very very >> very specific initial condition, the only one that supports their pet >> theory. If the many world's idea could be ruled out in some other way >> nobody in their right mind would propose an idea as ridiculous as >> superdeterminism. Nobody! >> >> Nearly all initial conditions would have resulted in a universe that >> looked pretty much like this one, but one hyper-rare one won't. There is >> one chance in an astronomical^2 number (or more) it did not, and >> superdeterministic fans insist that must be the very one it did start out >> in because they're desperate to avoid many worlds. Well OK two can play at >> that game, maybe despite all the evidence to the contrary, Fred Hoyle's >> steady state cosmological theory is correct after all but the universe >> started out in the one and only initial condition that would forever >> mislead us into thinking it is not. Or maybe the geocentric theory is >> correct and everything in the universe really does rotate around the earth. >> If the initial conditions were just right dinosaur bones could have been >> formed from non-biological geology less than 4000 years ago, so maybe >> dinosaurs >> were never flesh and blood and never lived more than 66 million years ago. >> If you don't like a theory, any theory not just many worlds, all you have >> to do is just ignore all the evidence that it's true and claim that the >> initial conditions are causing us to be deceived. This way lies madness. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv18ES8xzb1h7nHFqNGz9N_FADRHC9oyQvEern8PvU4aLQ%40mail.gmail.com.
