On 7/9/2024 1:32 AM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jul 2024 at 04:23, Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 3:14 PM John Clark <[email protected]>
wrote:
On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 1:58 PM Jason Resch
<[email protected]> wrote:
/>>> // I think such foresight is a necessary
component of intelligence, not a "byproduct"./
>>I agree, I can detect the existence of foresight in
others and so can natural selection, and that's why we
have it. It aids in getting our genes transferred
into the next generation. But I was talking about
consciousness not foresight, and regardless of how
important we personally think consciousness is, from
evolution's point of view it's utterly useless, and
yet we have it, or at least I have it.
/> you don't seem to think zombies are logically possible,/
Zombies are possible, it's philosophical zombies, a.k.a. smart
zombies, that are impossible because it's a brute fact that
consciousness is the way data behaves when it is being
processed intelligently, or at least that's what I think.
Unless you believe that all iterated sequences of "why" or
"how" questions go on forever then you must believe that brute
facts exist; and I can't think of a better candidate for one
than consciousness.
/> so then epiphenomenalism is false/
According to the InternetEncyclopedia of Philosophy
"/Epiphenomenalism is a position in the philosophy of mind
according to which mental states or events are caused by
physical states or events in the brain but do not themselves
cause anything/".If that is the definition then I believe in
Epiphenomenalism.
If you believe mental states do not cause anything, then you
believe philosophical zombies are logically possible (since we
could remove consciousness without altering behavior).
Mental states could be necessarily tied to physical states without
having any separate causal efficacy, and zombies would not be
logically possible. Software is necessarily tied to hardware activity:
if a computer runs a particular program, it is not optional that the
program is implemented. However, the software does not itself have
causal efficacy, causing current to flow in wires and semiconductors
and so on: there is always a sufficient explanation for such activity
in purely physical terms.
That's why I view it as a choice in level of description. This seems to
parallel the 19th Century discussions of life. That life is an
organization of molecules capable of metabolism and reproduction,
eventually prevailed over the need for an animating spirit. But there
remained a lot to be discovered about that organization. It is a very
specific organization. Probably not the only possible kind of life, but
certainly distinct from non-life.
Brent
I view mental states as high-level states operating in their own
regime of causality (much like a Java computer program). The java
computer program can run on any platform, regardless of the
particular physical nature of it. It has in a sense isolated
itself from the causality of the electrons and semiconductors, and
operates in its own realm of the causality of if statements, and
for loops. Consider this program, for example:
twin-prime-program2.png
What causes the program to terminate? Is it the inputs, and the
logical relation of primality, or is it the electrons flowing
through the CPU? I would argue that the higher-level causality,
regarding the logical relations of the inputs to the program logic
is just as important. It determines the physics of things like
when the program terminates. At this level, the microcircuitry is
relevant only to its support of the higher level causal
structures, but the program doesn't need to be aware of nor
consider those low-level things. It operates the same regardless.
I view consciousness as like that high-level control structure. It
operates within a causal realm where ideas and thoughts have
causal influence and power, and can reach down to the lower level
to do things like trigger nerve impulses.
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