So based on your definition, Santa Claus exists. On Tuesday 9 July 2024 at 00:47:28 UTC+3 Jason Resch wrote:
> > > On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 5:17 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Brain doesn't exist. > > > Then it exists as an object in consciousness, which is as much as exist > would mean under idealism. Rather than say things don't exist, I think it > would be better to redefine what is meant by existence. > > > "Brain" is just an idea in consciousness. > > > Sure, and all objects exist in the mind of God. So "exist" goes back to > meaning what it has always meant, as Markus Mueller said (roughly): "A > exists for B, when changing the state of A can change the state of B, and > vice versa, under certain auxiliary conditions." > > > See my papers, like "How Self-Reference Builds the World": >> https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan > > >> > I have, and replied with comments and questions. You, however, dismissed > them as me not having read your paper. > > Have you seen my paper on how computational observers build the world? It > reaches a similar conclusion to yours: > > https://philpeople.org/profiles/jason-k-resch > > Jason > > > >> On Monday 8 July 2024 at 23:35:12 UTC+3 Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024, 4:04 PM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 2:12 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> *>Consciousness is a prerequisite of intelligence.* >>>>> >>>> >>>> I think you've got that backwards, intelligence is a prerequisite of >>>> consciousness. And the possibility of intelligent ACTIONS is a >>>> prerequisite for Darwinian natural selection to have evolved it. >>>> >>> >>> I disagree, but will explain below. >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> *> One can be conscious without being intelligent,* >>>>> >>>> >>>> Sure. >>>> >>> >>> I define intelligence by something capable of intelligent action. >>> >>> Intelligent action requires non random choice: choice informed by >>> information from the environment. >>> >>> Having information about the environment (i.e. perceptions) is >>> consciousness. You cannot have perceptions without there being some process >>> or thing to perceive them. >>> >>> Therefore perceptions (i.e. consciousness) is a requirement and >>> precondition of being able to perform intelligent actions. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> The Turing Test is not perfect, it has a lot of flaws, but it's all >>>> we've got. If something passes the Turing Test then it's intelligent and >>>> conscious, but if it fails the test then it may or may not be intelligent >>>> and or conscious. >>>> >>>> *You need to have perceptions (of the environment, or the current >>>>> situation) in order to act intelligently. * >>>> >>>> >>>> For intelligence to have evolved, and we know for a fact that it has, >>>> you not only need to be able to perceive the environment you also >>>> need to be able to manipulate it. That's why zebras didn't evolve great >>>> intelligence, they have no hands, so a brilliant zebra wouldn't have a >>>> great advantage over a dumb zebra, in fact he'd probably be at a >>>> disadvantage because a big brain is a great energy hog. >>>> John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis >>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> >>>> 339 >>>> >>>> 3b4 >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2Zjakk5szeMFfZu%3DCYp3FzopZsOOMXW%2Bx7qPH9_pujfg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv2Zjakk5szeMFfZu%3DCYp3FzopZsOOMXW%2Bx7qPH9_pujfg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5812f096-a4a9-4915-8fee-5b7c810d3609n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5812f096-a4a9-4915-8fee-5b7c810d3609n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6d73d528-f6d0-42be-855f-2bdb76510663n%40googlegroups.com.
