From: Chris Reinhardt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 04:48:48 -0700 (PDT)
Chuck, Please 16 valves here, not 20, 16....
I speak for the Hondas, that's where my experience is. Intake valve
$16, exhaust valve, $24. I had a couple of guides replaced in a CRF450
motor, they were $35 each, and that included the Serdi valve job. The
guide was cheap, $6 or $8 each. Mind you, that was a Ti exhaust valve I
was experimenting with, that melted and mashed up the guide, generally you
can bend a valve and not hurt the guide.
There's plenty of data on these motors, both modified and stock. They
have been supersport racing them in bikes since the 80's, sprint racing
since the 90's or so. Although I don't think comparing rebuilds in a alky
motor to a gasoline motor is fair...
CR
Chuck Voboril <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jay,
Thanks, but those are prices for buying a prepped motor.
The actual question in mind was what does it cost to maintain a prepped
4-stroke?
Cost of freshening vs number of race miles between them (without overrevs),
in other words.
I was making a rough guess that the Ford motors would be a reference point
lacking any GSXR600 data.
Dave may have some data from his friend with the minisprint-number of miles
on the track between rebuilds and cost per rebuild. (no overrevs)
Might be nice to know what the cost of replacing 20 bent valves, egged out
guides, and pistons and rings is also.
Chuck
>From: "Chuck Voboril"
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: RE: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:35:00 -0700
>
>Please don't shoot me for mentioning this-but the Zetec hasn't done much
of
>anything to help attendence.
>
>Chuck
>
>>From: "Jay Novak"
>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To:
>>Subject: RE: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
>>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:40:06 -0400
>>
>>Right now a top of the pine 1600cc Fford engine is $12K & a 2L Pinto is
>>$13K. These prices are the result of the continued use & development of
>>engines that are no longer available and were build when tolerances were
>>not
>>what they are today. They also require a lot of maint & freshening. A 2L
>>Zetec with FI is $7K & can run or 5K miles between rebuilds.
>>
>>Thanks ... Jay Novak
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Chris
>>Reinhardt
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:43 PM
>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Re: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
>>
>>
>> Is a Pinto FF motor easy and cheap to keep going??? Like the wagon, it
>>was
>>cheap and easy back in the day....
>>
>> CR
>>
>>Chuck Voboril wrote:
>> Yes Chris, that's right, but then a old wagon should be easier to work
>>on
>>and prep.
>>It is a very conservative comparison for what it will cost for members
to
>>have a front running stock 4-stroke-it shall probably be even more than
>>that
>>since these are more complicated motors than Pinto motors.
>>
>>
>>Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: Chris Reinhardt
>> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> >Subject: Re: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
>> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:53:32 -0700 (PDT)
>> >
>> > Comparing a Pinto engine to the GSXR is like comparing a wagon train
to
>>a
>> >F1 car....
>> >
>> > CR
>> >
>> >Chuck Voboril wrote:
>> > There is no fair comparison cost wise at this point
>> >The GSXR600 may be far more expensive than a 2-stroke.
>> >
>> >The GXSR600 is spec'd by the mfg at 115 HP motor in pure stock form
with
>>a
>> >quiet exhaust system on pump gas-not a bad thing.
>> >
>> >The GSXR750 is 146 HP stock.
>> >
>> >However, within the limits of ANY stock engine class, there is ALWAYS
>>more
>> >HP to be had.
>> >
>> >The STOCK cam and STOCK carburator Pinto motor puts out 115 HP in
>>FF1600.
>> >Yet this was about a 80 HP engine from the factory.
>> >
>> >Chuck
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Chuck
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: "Robert Wilson"
>> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> > >To:
>> > >Subject: Re: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
>> > >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:06:43 -0400
>> > >
>> > >I think there should be testing done before we "assume" that this
will
>>be
>> >a
>> > >"bottomless money pit". Maybe the stock engine will perform closely
to
>> >the
>> > >current engines. Noone knows until we test. If they are close, I
would
>> > >propose that the motor would have to be left in stock configuration.
>>If
>> >it
>> > >under-performs (which I doubt), then you would be getting into
>>internal
>> > >mods, which I agree that would be no good for the class.
>> > >
>> > >Bottom line, if the stock motor is close performance wise, and costs
>> >close
>> > >to half the price of a new rotax setup with clutching, why would
>>anyone
>> >be
>> > >against it? Hell, if you blow one up, you can buy a brand new one
>>instead
>> > >of rebuild!
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >----- Original Message -----
>> > >From: "Jim's Lawn Shop"
>> > >To:
>> > >Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:14 AM
>> > >Subject: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Chuck,
>> > > > Don't forget, about 6 months after you get the "stock" engine
>> > > > done a manufacture will have a better one out and you can
>> > > > do it all over again.
>> > > > This will be a bottomless money pit!
>> > > > Dave Phaneuf
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------
>> >Don't pick lemons.
>> >See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>> Get your own web address.
>> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>>
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4/8/2007
>>8:34 PM
>>
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