Chuck, there's no real magic to rebuilding a 600, they're pretty straight forward. You send the head out to get freshened if it needs it, and re-ring it. The hardest thing is making sure the cams are timed correctly, kinda like making sure the rotary valve is right.... CR
Chuck Voboril <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Chris, Sorry, I only have about 20 minutes I can spend on this per day. I'm in a hurry to read, reply and go back to work.. 16 valves for a GSXR- I just had 20 stuck in my head. Shake, shake, knock, knock Thats $432 for all 16 valves and guides using your prices. Parts only, right? You then said $35 for the labor and one guide to replace one guide and regrind the valve -is that right? I guess that Jay has a price of $1500 for freshening a GSXR600 which should be replacing at least a few valves, grinding all the rest of the seats and valves and 4 new rings sets with cylinder honing at a minimum. Did it include any more than that? What do you guys pay for parts to freshen up your Rotaxes yourselves? and what do you typically pay if Q or someone else does it for you? Do we assume that you don't typically need rods and a crank to freshen up a Rotax? or to freshen up a GSXR600? As a fair comparison to the $2000-$3500 used GSXR600 motor packages, What do you expect to pay for a good low mileage salvage yard Rotax if the RAVE motors also are legal? Chuck >From: Chris Reinhardt >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc >Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2007 04:48:48 -0700 (PDT) > > Chuck, Please 16 valves here, not 20, 16.... > I speak for the Hondas, that's where my experience is. Intake valve >$16, exhaust valve, $24. I had a couple of guides replaced in a CRF450 >motor, they were $35 each, and that included the Serdi valve job. The >guide was cheap, $6 or $8 each. Mind you, that was a Ti exhaust valve I >was experimenting with, that melted and mashed up the guide, generally you >can bend a valve and not hurt the guide. > There's plenty of data on these motors, both modified and stock. They >have been supersport racing them in bikes since the 80's, sprint racing >since the 90's or so. Although I don't think comparing rebuilds in a alky >motor to a gasoline motor is fair... > > CR > >Chuck Voboril wrote: > Jay, >Thanks, but those are prices for buying a prepped motor. > >The actual question in mind was what does it cost to maintain a prepped >4-stroke? > >Cost of freshening vs number of race miles between them (without overrevs), >in other words. > >I was making a rough guess that the Ford motors would be a reference point >lacking any GSXR600 data. > >Dave may have some data from his friend with the minisprint-number of miles >on the track between rebuilds and cost per rebuild. (no overrevs) > >Might be nice to know what the cost of replacing 20 bent valves, egged out >guides, and pistons and rings is also. > > >Chuck > > > > > > >From: "Chuck Voboril" > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc > >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 21:35:00 -0700 > > > >Please don't shoot me for mentioning this-but the Zetec hasn't done much >of > >anything to help attendence. > > > >Chuck > > > >>From: "Jay Novak" > >>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>To: > >>Subject: RE: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc > >>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 18:40:06 -0400 > >> > >>Right now a top of the pine 1600cc Fford engine is $12K & a 2L Pinto is > >>$13K. These prices are the result of the continued use & development of > >>engines that are no longer available and were build when tolerances were > >>not > >>what they are today. They also require a lot of maint & freshening. A 2L > >>Zetec with FI is $7K & can run or 5K miles between rebuilds. > >> > >>Thanks ... Jay Novak > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of >Chris > >>Reinhardt > >>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 5:43 PM > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Subject: Re: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc > >> > >> > >> Is a Pinto FF motor easy and cheap to keep going??? Like the wagon, it > >>was > >>cheap and easy back in the day.... > >> > >> CR > >> > >>Chuck Voboril wrote: > >> Yes Chris, that's right, but then a old wagon should be easier to work > >>on > >>and prep. > >>It is a very conservative comparison for what it will cost for members >to > >>have a front running stock 4-stroke-it shall probably be even more than > >>that > >>since these are more complicated motors than Pinto motors. > >> > >> > >>Chuck > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >From: Chris Reinhardt > >> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> >Subject: Re: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc > >> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 03:53:32 -0700 (PDT) > >> > > >> > Comparing a Pinto engine to the GSXR is like comparing a wagon train >to > >>a > >> >F1 car.... > >> > > >> > CR > >> > > >> >Chuck Voboril wrote: > >> > There is no fair comparison cost wise at this point > >> >The GSXR600 may be far more expensive than a 2-stroke. > >> > > >> >The GXSR600 is spec'd by the mfg at 115 HP motor in pure stock form >with > >>a > >> >quiet exhaust system on pump gas-not a bad thing. > >> > > >> >The GSXR750 is 146 HP stock. > >> > > >> >However, within the limits of ANY stock engine class, there is ALWAYS > >>more > >> >HP to be had. > >> > > >> >The STOCK cam and STOCK carburator Pinto motor puts out 115 HP in > >>FF1600. > >> >Yet this was about a 80 HP engine from the factory. > >> > > >> >Chuck > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Chuck > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >From: "Robert Wilson" > >> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >To: > >> > >Subject: Re: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc > >> > >Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:06:43 -0400 > >> > > > >> > >I think there should be testing done before we "assume" that this >will > >>be > >> >a > >> > >"bottomless money pit". Maybe the stock engine will perform closely >to > >> >the > >> > >current engines. Noone knows until we test. If they are close, I >would > >> > >propose that the motor would have to be left in stock configuration. > >>If > >> >it > >> > >under-performs (which I doubt), then you would be getting into > >>internal > >> > >mods, which I agree that would be no good for the class. > >> > > > >> > >Bottom line, if the stock motor is close performance wise, and costs > >> >close > >> > >to half the price of a new rotax setup with clutching, why would > >>anyone > >> >be > >> > >against it? Hell, if you blow one up, you can buy a brand new one > >>instead > >> > >of rebuild! > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- > >> > >From: "Jim's Lawn Shop" > >> > >To: > >> > >Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 9:14 AM > >> > >Subject: [F500] Pricing Rotax vs. 4strk GXSR 600cc > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Chuck, > >> > > > Don't forget, about 6 months after you get the "stock" engine > >> > > > done a manufacture will have a better one out and you can > >> > > > do it all over again. > >> > > > This will be a bottomless money pit! > >> > > > Dave Phaneuf > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >--------------------------------- > >> >Don't pick lemons. > >> >See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > >> > >> > >> > >>--------------------------------- > >> Get your own web address. > >> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. > >> > >>-- > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/752 - Release Date: >4/8/2007 > >>8:34 PM > >> > >>-- > >>No virus found in this outgoing message. > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.26/752 - Release Date: >4/8/2007 > >>8:34 PM > > > >--------------------------------- >Need Mail bonding? >Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users. --------------------------------- Looking for earth-friendly autos? Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. ________________________________ FormulaCar Magazine - A Proud Supporter of Formula 500 The Official Publication of Junior Formula Car Racing Subscribe Today! www.formulacarmag.com or 519-624-2003 _________________________________ _______________________________________________ F500 mailing list - [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe or change options please visit: http://f500.org/mailman/listinfo/f500 *** Please, DO NOT send unsubscribe requests to the mailing list! ***
