--- anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: snip
> > I'd also like to ammend my earlier comment about > experience always > coming packaged with the knowledge necessary to > understand the > experience. Here's a counterexample that I thought > of: that TM > teacher who wrote a book about her "enlightenment" > and then died of > a brain tumor. She had no understanding for a decade > or more. So the > knowledge isn't always there. Hmm... She was having a CC experience which is the first awakening out of bondage. CC is the cessation of consciousness identifying with any relative experience. The mind is still filled with mental habits and these are "burned-out" as that nothingness ripens. There is no "unboundedness in CC. Just nothingness. It is very, very hard on the mind because it keeps looking for something called "self" and finds pure emptiness instead. This mental habit must be broken. She did not gain the intellectual understanding of this through MMY or the TMO (which is too bad because in my experience it is right there!) and was therefore confused for quite some time until that nothingness ate the gap and she was in UC. Then she died ;-) hehehe. A kali yuga curve ball. -Peter (eater of the gap) > > --- In [email protected], akasha_108 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > --- In [email protected], anonymousff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > In my experience, it is fun to contemplate such > issues. And > thank > > > you to each and every one of you who contributed > to this thread. > > > > > > But, having noticed that even deep immersement > in these ideas > over a > > > period of years has not resulted in a gestalt > awakening to what > is > > > really happening here, I go about my business as > usual. Such > > > metaphysical questions appear to get burnt up in > the searing > heat of > > > life lived in the present. > > > > > > I have heard that some do awaken to the true > nature of things as > a > > > result of this kind of self-inquiry, and so, do > not condemn it > > > outright. But I wonder sometimes at its utility. > In under an > hour, I > > > am sure that someone familiar with the various > conceptual > nuances > > > and schools of thought on the topics of I, ego, > doer, > individuality, > > > self etc., could lay them all out so that anyone > of reasonably > > > developed intellect could grasp the ideas and > check on how well > they > > > relate to their own experience. After that, what > is the point, > > > unless it is to check in once every few years to > see if one's > > > perspective has changed due to the clearing of > fog or the > shifting > > > of mirrors? > > > > (Sorry Akasha for this linear thinking, > non-gestalt > > > conclusion - I don't fully mean it...am just > stating how I feel > at > > > the moment.) > > > > > > For the most part, the intellect thinks in a > sequential, linear > > fashion. I am not advocating anyone to try to > abondon that at all - > - I > > don't think thats possible. What does occur at > times though, is > that > > after examining various parts of a puzzle, in a > systematic, linear > > fashion, the various parts can "flash" -- fuse in > new ways, > providing > > new insight. > > > > Sometimes the linear analysis and (sometimes) > subsequent "flash" > are > > based on symbolic processing -- that is, its a > logical refinement > and > > manipulation of concepts / abstractions -- sort of > like solving an > > algebraic equations where the variables are > concepts. Concepts > and > > abstractions are the "content" of the processing. > > > > On the other hand, a different type of linear > processing can occur, > > also resulting in a, often later, gestalt-typr > flash. However, now > the > > elements being processed, the content, the data > being crunched, is > > experiential. Or, sometimes a mixture of > conceptual elelments and > > experiential elements. The post linear analysis > phase, > the "flash" -- > > fuses concepts and/or experience in new > relationships and can > result > > in a new experiential foundation. > > > > The best analogy I can think of to explain the > fusion of conceptual > > and experiential elements -- each originally > approached in very > linear > > systematic fashion, and it is only an analogy, is > in learning a new > > skill or sport. For example, for those that play > tennis, a top-spin > > serve becomes a valuable tool -- particularly as a > second serve. It > > almost always goes in, even when hit full force, > and can be made to > > bounce so high to an opponent's weaker side that > it is hard to > return > > -- and further, can get the opponent out of > position. > > > > When I was a kid and a teacher explained the > top-spin serve to me, > I > > didnt get it. I got the concept, I got the > mechanics. But I could > not > > "do it", I couldn't make it an experience. Later, > some time later, > > fooling around, I found I could make my serves > really "kick" by > doing > > this "thing" that I could not explain, but could > do. Some time > later, > > the concept and the experience fused in a flash, > and I tealized > what > > I was doing was a self-learned top-spin serve. I > then reused the > > conceptual understanding of top-spin to refine and > clarify the > > mechanics of the "experience" and the feel of > doing it. Soon, it > was > > just locked in. > > > > The point is, you don't attempt to think > gestaltly, nonlinearly. I > > don't know how to do that -- other than to set up > the conditions > that > > let that happen. And that is to sharply look at > different parts of > an > > issue or problem in a linear systematic fashion. > And then, in a > sense, > > let go. And in time, sometimes, or often, a more > holistic, > > multi-component (symbols and /or experiential > elements) creat a > > "flash" of insight, almost as if the fusion of the > elements creates > > energy and light. > > > > The broader point is that I have found that > periodically > > systematically and intensely examining the > components === message truncated === __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
